Very sad news from Denmark:

Doogle

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Danish Board of Health may commit seriously ill ME-patient to a psychiatric hospital

From another list I belong to, please don't e-mail me for more details as this is all I
know about it.



Very sad news from Denmark:

Danish Board of Health threatens to commit seriously ill
ME-patient to a psychiatric hospital.

The Danish Board of Health says that the diagnosis
of ME is the same as insanity and wants to forcibly
remove a 23-year old woman, Karina, from her family
home.

Danish-Karin-bed-bound-1.jpg

This could happen as soon as May 2nd.

Karina is totally bed-bound, is extremely light and sound
sensitive and is too weak to talk. .

She is so extremely ill that there is a real chance that a
move could be fatal.

Karinas parents have been trying to get permission to set
up an IV at home to help keep Karina alive, but instead the
health department decided that Karina is mentally ill and
should be removed.

The family has been repeatedly told by Danish doctors that
the diagnosis of ME is not recognized.

They do not understand how sick an ME-patient can be with
this disease and their ignorance can now have fatal
consequences for Karina

says Rebecca Hansen, Chairman of the ME Association in
Denmark.

Please help us by spreading this story on-line and to the
media.

We would like to get journalists interested in writing about it.

Rebecca Hansen can be contacted at:

icerebel62@hotmail.com
 

taniaaust1

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I dont have anything to say.. just left feeling speechless at the ridiculous of it.

Till the day comes in which actual severe ME patients are being offically recognised, worldwide there will keep being this issue... watering down of the condition is to blame.

I so really hope they dont get to take her away.
 

Carrigon

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It's Sophia Mirza all over again. If someone high up doesn't step in, they will kill her just like they did with Sophia. How many more people have to die before we finally get the recognition, legitimacy, and respect we deserve. The evil of the money grubbing psych lobby is so incredibly disgusting.
 

Enid

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The Danish Board of Health - where have they been all these years - stuck in a hole somewhere - disgusting.

Don't ask me about the psyches and their omnipresence and ignorance in ME - things get ruder. What about taking them to court - the Anders B trial in Norway is essentially about proving his legal sanity despite the horrors he inflicted - seems the psyches with their mumbo jumbo flounder here too.

Terribly sad and hope/wait to hear Karina and her parents may find the correct support and treatment.
 

SilverbladeTE

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Sounds like the modern Mengele's to me - simply appaling. So sorry.
One can't ay that! Oh noes!! The psych scum are sacred cows! saving the government and industry money!
They are caring, decent professionals who would never torture another human being to death in heinous, cowardly way, never!


*says Silverblade in Grand Guignol sarcasm mode ala Monty Python* :p

As I've been pointing out, ain't it funny how one profession has such extreme inhumanity and grotesque ignorance, when it's supposed to tbe the exact opposite, hm?

(and again, humour's only way to deal with such as it is not permitted ot blow one's stack at these scum, and one has long had enough of such horrible stuff anyway all you can do make a mockery of the assholes or go mad)
 

Nielk

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What can WE do about this? I feel so helpless just laying here, allowing this to happen in front of our eyes.

Maybe, the Coalition of 8 can get involved here and lend support to the Danich ME/CFS Association to help this family?
This is a time where there are no borders. This is a global problem affecting one of us.
What can we do to help?
Any ideas?
 

SilverbladeTE

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Bastards need threatened legally: false imprisonment, Grievous Bodily Harm and murder if the person dies, delivered by a lawyer specializing in Human RIghts abuse cases, add in a dash of media interest if you can.
No institution will want the threat of massive lawsuits, civil or criminal, like that
(I don't know Danish law, but civil law is a LOT easier to get some smug git roasted with, alas takes money OR motivated lawyer to help)

Only the threat of legal action will stop these evil pr*cks.

NO EVIDENCE AT ALL worth wiping your arse on, NO SCIENTIFIC OR CRUCIALLY, LEGAL EVIDENCE, supports ME as a psychological condition
ME is listed as major/primary factor on death certificates.
So, locking folk up and treating them for psychologica; condition is at best, quackery, at worst, serious criminal wrongdoing and abuse of the health and lega; systems
END OF STORY!!!

Shove that up yer pipes and smoke it, all ya psychobabble-bullshit, conceited, merciless, Weasel bastards out there!

Sooner or later, the Public will get this, will get angry, so the spineless scum in government will panic and hey presto! the psychobabblers will find they are offered up as scapegoats, deserving scapegoats at that, no longer protected, hung out to dry
oh and it's coming, hence the retirements etc of some of our worst abusers recently, they know they are soon to be in a world of crap


This isn't a gawd damn university debate for neutral, sanitized debate: folk suffer and die because of these twisted, bigotted, zealot, evil gobshytes!
Send 'em to Hell, via lawyers! Muhaha ;)

Hm, wonder if we could get Amnisty or similar groups interested?
What's being done to us is little different, and good deal worse, than the crap the Soviets did to their dissidents (locking 'em up in asylums to silence/brainwash/weaken support/poison)
 

Enid

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Well I think what we can do (over 6,000 here) is a slow persistant fightback - science long outdated this ignorance - how come we can keep up and they cannot. Now who is the more intelligent - once asked my psyche unable to do the Times Crossword !.
 
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this is on facebook

Update on Karina:

Thanks for all the support and good advice I have gotten from around the world. So great to feel the power of the ME-community. Here is more info on the situation.

Nothing is happening today. The family is waiting for a message from the caseworker from the Board of Health. I am verifying that persons name now and will share it later. The facts are that a meeting was held about Karinas case at which a Board of Health doctor stated that they equate ME with insanity and suggested the girl be forcibly removed from her home. The family is asking for a copy of the notes from this meeting and a list of the doctors at this meeting. We are also asking for their plan of action for her if they do remove her.

That is all I know today but will post again as soon as anything develops. Now the family has to wait until the case worker calls them. They dont know how long that will be. And there is a long weekend coming up Friday is a holiday in Denmark Big Praying Day. Seems fitting in a way

Here is a little more background info about Karina and her case.

Her name is Karina Hansen and she lives in Holstebro, Denmark. She has been sick since she was 16 after an Epstein-Barr infection.

Because of lack of understanding about her condition, she was encouraged to exercise. Which always led to a worsening of her condition.

On May 12th, 2010, her GP pushed her parents into admitting Karina to the hospital for rehabilitation. While she was there, the GP tried to get her committed to a psychiatric hospital. They were not able to do it, as Karina is not mentally ill. She has been evaluated several times and found mentally healthy.

During this time I put them in contact with Dr. Isager, the Danish ME expert. He was able to get Karina out of the hospital and gave her a diagnosis of ME. The hospitalization made her so sick that she has since been completely bed-bound, lives in a dark room and cant tolerate any noise. Her family lives in a trailer in the yard . It is so painful for her to be touched that her mom has not been able to wash her for 2 years. She grows weaker by the day. Dr. Isager suggested that she have an IV put in at home in order to keep her alive. Her new GP has been very good and tried everything she can to make this happen.

So there is a good ME-expert involved but the government does not recognize him as an expert in ME. And Karna has a good GP. But the government officials and the specialists at the hospitals are blocking her from getting the help she needs.

If you would like to write to public officials about her case, here are the basic addresses:

Ministry of Health sum@sum.dk

Board of Health sst@sst.dk

I will try to find more specific ones later.

What we are asking for is:

That they listen to the advice of Dr. Isager and her GP. (Sorry I cant give out her name until I ok it with her.)

To have the Board of Health and Ministry of Health respect the WHO code for ME G93.3 and treat it as a neurological disease.

To remove the incorrect information about ME from official websites. ( it is listed under 3 codes here and called kronisk trthedsyndrom chronic tiredness syndrome)

http://laegehaandbogen.dk/legehandbogen/generelt/kronisk-trethedssyndrom-1314.html

Here it is called somatoform or functional somatic syndrome

https://www.sundhed.dk/sundhedsfagl...skrivelser-icpc/p-psykisk/somatoform-lidelse/

it is because of sites like these that the misinformation about ME exists and thrives in Denmark

And last but not least to have the government recommend the ICC criteria to diagnose ME.



Again thanks for all the support and help. I felt so helpless last night when I got the call from Karinas mom but today I have hope that together we can create real awareness about ME. Thanks for that.

Rebecca

o
 

Enid

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Thanks for the update Min - everything in writing please - names, boards, professional capacities etc. please. No matter whatever mumbo jumbo out there one would think Denmark had followed the global research findings of the pathologies of ME - or another case of willful ignorance.
 

Sparrow

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I hope they are retaining a very good lawyer immediately.

It's disgusting that this kind of ignorance still exists in this day and age.
 

SilverbladeTE

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I hope they are retaining a very good lawyer immediately.

It's disgusting that this kind of ignorance still exists in this day and age.
Alas, look at the crap on race and sex that still goes on.
If someone doens't like OR does like President Obama for his policies/actiosn, perfectly fine as that's honest, rational personal choice...but not because of the colour of his skin.
If someone doesn't like that homosexuals are willing to put themselves on the front lines to aid their country, then,frankly, such an abjector should go get bloody shot at too and see hwo they like! (and to put in crude terms, 300 Greek poofs and 5000 friends stood off an army of half a million or we wouldn't HAVE our civlization today, so I think we could do with more of 'em :p)
Or the insanity that you cannot have sex or drink in many places before 18 or evenb 21, but you can bloody well die for your country oftne for complete lies and bollocks ot make some scum richer.....*bangs head on wall*

The ME issue is simple bloody ignorance and bigotry
Alex and others were debating it well in other threads.
but part of it comes down to:
there are too many folk out there who are gutless, lazy swine, and put folk into simple small boxes to dealwith easier, because they won't take the time to examine the issues further.
Now, sometimes that occurs because of illness or abuse limiting their mental capacity, and is forgiveable, but a lot though are just not willing to "walk a mile in the other person's shoes", and so, pigeonhole them into the box labelled "contempt" for ease of use and ot make themselves feel better.

See, we Humans spend a huge amount of energy and effort empathizing etc, 1/3rd of our brain gets switched to that task when dealing with each other face to face, HUGE effort (brain uses 1/3rd of body's energy, ergo just dealing with another perosn uses 1/9th of the body's entire energy consumption at that time!)

So it's easier, and in folk, we HAVE to "stereotype" or pigeonhole people, to some extent simple for ease of dealing with them.
Bob = Straight, Christian, White, older, Conservative, Nice
Joe = Gay, Latino, unknown religious type, Liberal, funny.
etc, simple filing notes, sort of
It's like "barcode", to deal with the vast numbers of folk we may know.
Quick, handy shorthand, for more deep relationships we build up more refined "dossiers" in our heads on such folk as it were.

But as said, lot of buttholes won't take time/effort to expore/deepen this, or are such damaged or just meanspirited people they put more folk in deliberately denigratory "filling cabinets" in their heads
If they see all folk who are...black..Jew...gay..disabled or whatever, as "untermesnch", they feel superior
It's seriously part of why our stupid bloody societies still have classes because many folk WANT to put others "below them", or to get ot platueas to be "above" others.
Stupid idiots!
people come in only 3 types, good bad and useless and useless = gutless, "jobsworthy" types etc, not disabled.
Sigh

Sorry for sort of derail :)
but by putting ME patients into this utterly FAKE, bullshit "hysteria" category, some of these psychobabblers and doctors are doing so purely to dehumanize them, to make them the "undeserving sick", and if they are thus "scammers/weak/malingerers", they "deserve to be abused, to held in contmept to feel superior over"
That is EXACTLY how monsters like Dr Mengele and thousands of years of such horrors have came about, time after time.
It is too much effort, too much empathy, too little brains for them to examine, consider and empathize and HEAL and treat them as patients, rather than as subhumans.
And when such gets out of hand....you get horrors and abuse, ranging from the petty to obscene

Anyone so damn naive as to think I am wrong, please see how Ian Proctor was tortured, in the UK, by psychiatrists ot make him "admit his ME/paralysis was fake"
That evil horror was straight out of the damnable days of the witchhunters, EXACTLY the same, hell they even used "ducking to see if he was innocent or guilty" O M F G!!!


*rubs temples* sigh, sorry gets me really p****ed off, been dealing with such crap since a kid, add in headaches etc and I have ZERO damn tolerance left for such :/
"What you do unto the least of these, you do also unto me"
What you do unto others, you do also unto yourself
 

leela

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For frak's sake we are living in the dark ages!

So according to the Danish Ministry of Health (a dissociated body of anonymous individuals passing judgment from afar
based on erroneous data) Karina is insane, and must be removed from the home because her loving parents are also insane, so it is a clear case of mass hysteria again.

Who sounds insane in this scenario?!

Un-fricking-believable.

How is it possible that a government body can claim agency over the physical body of an individual, and a family of sovereign adults? It is absolutely appalling.
 

Nielk

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Update on Karina:

Update on Karina (May 4th, 2012) by the chairman of the ME Association in Denmark, Rebecca Hansen:


In the afternoon of the 3rd of May, a doctor from the Danish Board of Health suddenly showed up at Karinas house to decide if she should be forcibly removed. He physically examined her and Karina was able to answer a few questions. Then he and Karinas GP went out to the car to decide Karinas fate. That is when Karinas mom called me. I listened as it was decided that Karina should not be removed immediately but that they will reevaluate her on Monday. I believe that this amazing GP did everything she could to keep Karina from being removed. She does not want her name mentioned. She is in a horrible situation here and fighting for Karina in every way she can. At least the family now knows that nothing will happen this weekend. This gives them some relief and a chance for us to re-group, strategize and gather documentation.


The government doctor that was at Karinas house said that that the Board of Health is working with a well-known Danish psychiatrist in this case: A psychiatrist who has never actually seen Karina. But the government sees him as an authority for functional somatic syndromes so they act on his advice. But we still have nothing in writing from the Board of Health and are waiting for documentation. I can therefore not give out names yet. But they will come.


As chairman of the ME Association in Denmark (formerly the Danish ME/CFS Association) I have informed the Board of Health many times that ME (ME/CFS) is not a functional somatic syndrome but we have been ignored. This weekend, the association will be translating our letters to and from the Board of Health this and about Karinas case so we can post them.


The family has contacted a lawyer and I have contacted a politician who has helped us before. We are putting together info to use to contact a journalist. We have contacted journalists before about Karina they get interested, make a few phone calls, do some interviews and then suddenly the story dies. Nothing has ever been printed. But we will keep trying.


Our website is here: http://www.me-cfs.dk/ - I am sorry to say that t is still under the old name of ME/CFS. On April 21rst, 2012, we voted to change the name to ME Association because the new board believes it is vitally important that we stick to the original name of this disease ME and not mix it up with CFS. CFS is seen as a psychological disease here so please ONLY call it ME when you write about this disease or if you contact anyone in Denmark about this case. It is because of this mixing of names, that the psychiatrists have been able to take over. Lets stop them.


We are also working in cooperation with the Danish ME Association http://www.dmef.dk/ ( yes there are two ME Associations in Denmark) to create an on-line petition that will be directed at the Board and Ministry of Health. We will ask the hard questions and have specific requests. We hope to have this done within a day or two.


Thanks again to everyone who is writing, posting and tweeting about Karina.
Rebecca
 

Desdinova

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Disgusting these dinosaurs will do anything to keep control of any and all biological/physical disorders labeled as syndromes by classifying them as somatic. And if every now and then they have to lock someone up and inadvertently expedite their demise in the process in order to hold onto the niche in the mental health industry they've built so be it. It's all about the money them making money and the governments, and private insurance companies saving money.

I also can't help but wonder if sometimes they do this hoping that it does get put out in the media. How many people suffering from a debilitating illness with no known cause will read, see and hear of this and think to themselves that could be me. If my illness continues on it's present course. If things were to get worse. If the right chain of events happens. That could easily be me. I'm sure many have and do think that. I'm just as sure that certain people known this, count on this and do it in an effort to put the proverbial fear into people who have these disorders. In the hope of keeping them from persisting and seeking help thus taking up valuable Healthcare time, resources and finances.
 

leela

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the Board of Health is working with a well-known Danish psychiatrist in this case: A psychiatrist who has never actually seen Karina.
Wait, wait, it is illegal to practice medicine this way, is it not?
And to base *extreme measues* on a consultant who has not even seen the patient? How dare they! Barbarians!
 

taniaaust1

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Sounds like she was lucky to be able to answer a few questions put to her.. if she was having a worstday and couldnt.. maybe then the likelihood in being taken away could of happened immediately?

It is the sickest of the ME patients who are getting it the worst as far as the medical profession goes. Abuse of the sickest. How is this even being allowed to happen?
A part of this is happening due to mixing ME and CFS people together and hence watering down the disease known as ME.

I can imagine how the stress of possibly being locked away in the near future must be affecting her. What they are doing having this hanging over her head, is a form of torture even if she hasnt been taken away.

So there is a good ME-expert involved but the government does not recognize him as an expert in ME. And Karna has a good GP. But the government officials and the specialists at the hospitals are blocking her from getting the help she needs.
The fight world wide I believe (not just in Denmark) is with the gov depts the most high up. It is what is going on higher up which impacts all the other levels.