Unexplained post-acute infection syndromes (Choutka et al., 2022)

Pyrrhus

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Unexplained post-acute infection syndromes (Choutka et al., 2022)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01810-6

Abstract:
SARS-CoV-2 is not unique in its ability to cause post-acute sequelae; certain acute infections have long been associated with an unexplained chronic disability in a minority of patients. These post-acute infection syndromes (PAISs) represent a substantial healthcare burden, but there is a lack of understanding of the underlying mechanisms, representing a significant blind spot in the field of medicine.

The relatively similar symptom profiles of individual PAISs, irrespective of the infectious agent, as well as the overlap of clinical features with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), suggest the potential involvement of a common etiopathogenesis.

In this Review, we summarize what is known about unexplained PAISs, provide context for post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC), and delineate the need for basic biomedical research into the underlying mechanisms behind this group of enigmatic chronic illnesses.
(spacing added for readability)
 

Oliver3

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I have found it semi astonishing all the talk of long COVID as if it is something completely new with barely a mention of how viral "syndromes" have long been among us.
It's almost deliberate. I say almost because I'm not a tin foil hat wearer. But it completely beggars belief that the medical, let alone journalistic fields have failed to pull the two threads together.
I think it's too much cognitive dissonance for them to admit there's been a ghost army of sufferers going through this for decade upon decade .
My doc recently told me I didn't try hard enough in therapy and therefore that's why I'm sick.
And all doctors I know are like this on the NHS.
It's a cult. They honestly believe they're doing you a favour with such talk.
I cannot wait for the day of Reckoning...( I hope it's not thirty years and my doc has retired) when I can go in and say...now about that therapy..
 
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all the talk of long COVID as if it is something completely new with barely a mention of how viral "syndromes" have long been among us.
yeah, I saw the CNN doctor being interviewed and he made comments about why would anyone have bothered with trying to treat these viruses? (as if persistent viral illnesses are not a thing)
 

Oliver3

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yeah, I saw the CNN doctor being interviewed and he made comments about why would anyone have bothered with trying to treat these viruses? (as if persistent viral illnesses are not a thing)
On ANY subject in the media, knowledge is wafer thin.
Added to that in supposed fields of excellence, only the very cream have any interest in their work and then they can only research what money allows them in terms of corporate funding.
I honestly could become an NHS doctor with a years brushing up. I've studied the body for 20 years trying to get myself out of this mess.
The fact that I know more than some endocrinologist is not testament to my intellect, but rather the NHS ( and I suspect most health regimes) lack of curiosity and willingness to fall back, draw their money , just go to the yearly training updates and have no passion for the subject, is the real problem.
I told my doctor about 5 years ago now that mitochondrial dysfunction was a problem in m.e.
Her response.
" I highly doubt that".
Her word was law.
Because they letters behind their name, you have no power. It's the same in farming. Talk to someone who has a degree in agriculture about pesticide use and they're evangelical about it's " considered" use ( they like to give a nod to the fact they are dangerous chemicals if not used by experts such as themselves.
You only have to read one George monbiot piece in the guardian, check the front of s car for lack of insects etc to know smthg is amiss.
They won't even counsel the idea, that people such as Bob naviaux have, that pesticides are really impacting our health.
They have the power.
It's frustrating, scary, and most people, such as myself before I got ill, think you're an extremist or a narciccist for trying to point all this stuff out.
Once you see the patterns, you can't unsee them. It's like you've arrived from the future with important news and no one believes you.
It's one of the worse aspects of this disease for me, the disbelief
 

Oliver3

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I am considered "Dr. Booble" amongst my friends and family. I can generally diagnose most people's issues that are later confirmed by their doctor. And you're right, not because I'm a genius, but because I've paid too much attention over too many years.
Whilst I cannot claim to be a booble, Im similar. Mines more at the stage where they think I'm talking nonsense til they find the docs advice has left them worse off sadly
 

ruben

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I have found it semi astonishing all the talk of long COVID as if it is something completely new with barely a mention of how viral "syndromes" have long been among us.
I think the key thing is that with covid it hit the world like a whirl wind, so when loads of people were left with long covid it stood out in a very obvious way. I got glandular fever years ago and never got right. But obviously glandular isn't a pandemic, it's very sporadic.
 

Learner1

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Thank you @Pyrrhus for posting. I noticed Mast Horning was a co-author. Wish they would have gone on to whether infection treatments can resolve symptoms...

I have found it semi astonishing all the talk of long COVID as if it is something completely new with barely a mention of how viral "syndromes" have long been among us
I didn't find that at all. They mentioned outbreaks back to the 1930s.
I think the key thing is that with covid it hit the world like a whirl wind, so when loads of people were left with long covid it stood out in a very obvious way. I got glandular fever years ago and never got right. But obviously glandular isn't a pandemic, it's very sporadic.
But it is mentioned.

Again and again, I've seen patients finally (after years, in many cases) get diagnosed with smoldering infections, get them treated and begin to get better. Repairing the collateral damage collected along the way is important, too - as Prusty found infections can fragment mitochondria, then there's Naviaux' cell danger response.

It's sad that many patients know they e had certain infections, and wring their hands for years, when a major part of the answer is in front of them. And that many doctors are too arrogant and obstinate to test patients (repeatedly, with PCR if possible and not just antibodies which may have pooped out, and even looking in cerebral spinal fluid), then when faced with a fact that patients have these infections, prescribing effective treatments for these entrenched infections for long enough. A short course of an anti-infective may not be adequate in these situations. They also don't look at the impacts to the immune system and provide adequate support.

It is critical for patients to be educated and persistent with their doctors on finding and treating these infections. And to remain vigilant - I've had infections reactivate multiple times after physical and mental stresses, so now get regular testing and catch things as they reactivate.
 

Oliver3

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I think the key thing is that with covid it hit the world like a whirl wind, so when loads of people were left with long covid it stood out in a very obvious way. I got glandular fever years ago and never got right. But obviously glandular isn't a pandemic, it's very sporadic.
Yes, that kinda a given..but to me it's about "societal permission". It's been a disgrace that's why it's taken so long for any kind of belief to have occurred..just cos they went through some trauma now, well maybe ,just maybe we had a point all along.
I'm sorry but I' LL not be an apologist for these close minded fools. All my family doctors etc saw my suffering and told me it was my fault. Never ok.
Even now, long covid suffers don't want the stigma of having m.e. doctors still don't really believe.
Did you notice, in the pandemic, when George Floyd ws killed by the police.
They chocked him to death. You don't need to be a trauma expert to see that during a pandemic where people were being asphyxiated by a virus, seeing a man being asphyxiated for his race, that gave " permission" for society to see the problem.
These people at the top know , they just buried it.
I refuse to allow these criminals any excuses they still don't wanna invest in m.e.
Life is about being " seen". If you're not you drop into the underground and that's not a healthy place to be
 
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It's sad that many patients know they e had certain infections, and wring their hands for years, when a major part of the answer is in front of them.
thats me....I've made no further real progress in 2 years. You even gave me good advice, and here I sit.

I'll just admit I think its too late for me. I haven't had a day, the one day I used to get, that one day never seems arrive any more.

I think for me, my medical PTSD has left me unable to work the broken system. I cannot afford to be sick for two months, because of an hour talking to the dentist (which just happened). (no procedure, just talking).