• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Treating bacterial and/or viral infections

dmholmes

Senior Member
Messages
350
Location
Houston
Who here has success treating bacterial and/or viral infections? Any suggestions for the following?
  • Campylobacter
  • Lyme (IgM P39)
  • EBV (VCA and Nuclear Antigen IgG)
  • Chlamydia pneumonia (IgG)
  • Mycoplasma pneumonia (IgG)
  • Cytomegalovirus (IgG)
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
My daughter and I both improved dramatically with Valtrex for EBV and Valcyte for HHV6. Valcyte should work as well or better for CMV.

Since herpesvirus infections (EBV, HHV6, CMV, HSV, varicella zoster, etc) remain in the body forever (well, until we die, anyway ;)) there is always the chance that they will reactivate, especially when there is immune dysfunction. So while antiviral treatment for herpesviruses can knock the viruses back into latency, they do not cure the infection. For that reason, it may be necessary to repeat antiviral treatment periodically.

I had about 6 months of azithromycin for C. pneumoniae which helped. It wasn't nearly as big for me as getting EBV and HHV6 under control, though.
 

dmholmes

Senior Member
Messages
350
Location
Houston
Thanks @SOC! I did do a combined antibiotic for the C. pneumoniae a couple of years ago. I didn't see any results but it was for only about 3 months. Seems like fighting off the bacterial infections and getting the immune system working well is a good way to go.
 

dmholmes

Senior Member
Messages
350
Location
Houston
My daughter and I both improved dramatically with Valtrex for EBV and Valcyte for HHV6. Valcyte should work as well or better for CMV.

Since herpesvirus infections (EBV, HHV6, CMV, HSV, varicella zoster, etc) remain in the body forever (well, until we die, anyway ;)) there is always the chance that they will reactivate, especially when there is immune dysfunction. So while antiviral treatment for herpesviruses can knock the viruses back into latency, they do not cure the infection. For that reason, it may be necessary to repeat antiviral treatment periodically.

I had about 6 months of azithromycin for C. pneumoniae which helped. It wasn't nearly as big for me as getting EBV and HHV6 under control, though.

Also, did you try anything else (Lysine, monolaurin, etc...) for the viral infections? If so, anything that worked?
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Also, did you try anything else (Lysine, monolaurin, etc...) for the viral infections? If so, anything that worked?

It was the antivirals that worked. My daughter has low NK cell numbers and is taking inosine to try to improve her immune function in order to keep the viruses in latency.

Serious infections needs serious medications, imo. Once they're back in latency, supplements might help keep them there.
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
I have this protocol for lyme and co infection

Bacteria killing- Prima Una De Gato (toa free cats claw, different version of Samento), Samento is just a s good though... Banderol, and Grape Fruit seed extract.

Oxidative support- Resveratrol, CoQ10, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Neuro Protek, and Ribociene (glutathione pre cursor), may add PQQ later on

Inflammation response- Lithium aspartate (for my messed up brain), TheraCurmin, Fermented fish cod oil, source naturals glucosamine chondroitin complex with msm

General Immune system help- Ester C, Vitamin D, reishi mushroom, bio citrate magnesium, Jarrows B right complex.

Methylation protocol- Methyl b12, ado b12, methyl folate, L Carnatine Fumarate.


I also recently added some anti viral, anti bacterial, anti fungal essential oils using this protocol

http://beyondessential.com/lyme-protocol-essential-oils/

Also I don't know if it is a result of the supplements I take, or if I was deficient in something before but I also don't catch colds or flus anymore, even while being extremely ill from the lyme for over 6 months and what I would expect to be a compromised immune system.. Maybe the stuff I take creates an immune glandular response or something though.

Anyways in my opinion this stuff is working great!
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
Who here has success treating bacterial and/or viral infections? Any suggestions for the following?
  • Campylobacter
  • Lyme (IgM P39)
  • EBV (VCA and Nuclear Antigen IgG)
  • Chlamydia pneumonia (IgG)
  • Mycoplasma pneumonia (IgG)
  • Cytomegalovirus (IgG)

I went from positive to negative on C. Pneum and my reactivated EBV went down considerably. This was on a protocol that included injected GcMAF, Nexavir and a low and slow methylation protocol. (there were other elements too)

I am about to start treating Bartonella with antibiotics but expect that will take several years. :nervous:

Sushi
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
I went from positive to negative on C. Pneum and my reactivated EBV went down considerably. This was on a protocol that included injected GcMAF, Nexavir and a low and slow methylation protocol. (there were other elements too)

I am about to start treating Bartonella with antibiotics but expect that will take several years. :nervous:

Sushi

@Sushi

Wow that GcMAF looks so promising! I wish I could use it but I live in the U.S. :/ I will ask my LLMD to apply to get some though, good job on treating all those viruses!

I posted a protocol I am using for lyme above, which Bartonella is a co infection of check it out!

Also be sure to get something that can bust through the bio film for the abx!
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
@dmholmes
I did not treat Mycoplasma, EBV and Campylobacter. All others I treated. For Lyme I guess you mean Borrelia because the co-infections have their own requirements. I treated Borrelia and Cpn mainly with antibiotics (natural treatments did not work well) by using combinations effective against both. The IgG of CMV started to come down automatically as I treated the other infections. Like others I found GcMaf essential in my recovery. It reduced my Nagalase. If that's elevated, I personally do not think one can recover without first normalising it because it prevents the immune system from successfully attacking intracellular infections be they viral or bacterial.
Other suggestions that should help speed up recovery.
a) I did not know for sure which infections were driving my illness, some may have been opportunistic and there may have been others that just didn't show up. Therefore I treated systematically all possible types of infections: parasitic, bacterial and viral (yeast wasn't a problem) by using antimicrobials with the widest range of action. b) I tried and treated biofilm c) I started exercising as soon as I could but very slowly initially d) I used the simplified methylation protocol to support the detoxification of toxins e) I tried to reduce inflammation and increase blood flow to peripheral tissues as much as I could to make sure there were no hiding places for the microbes. f) I had amalgams so I had to remove and detox lead and mercury.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
@Sushi

Wow that GcMAF looks so promising! I wish I could use it but I live in the U.S. :/ I will ask my LLMD to apply to get some though, good job on treating all those viruses!

I posted a protocol I am using for lyme above, which Bartonella is a co infection of check it out!

Also be sure to get something that can bust through the bio film for the abx!

Hi Martial,

There is no problem getting GcMAF in the US. Lots of patients and doctors are using it. (I am also in the US) PM or open a chat for details.

Sushi
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
@Martial

P.S. If you are thinking of GcMAF, it is important to do some testing before trying it as it is not suitable for those with certain conditions like high levels of inflammation. Also, Lyme patients seem to have a harder time tolerating it, but then I guess you have been treating Lyme for sometime? So that might not apply to you.

It is good to have a doctor with GcMAF experience or one who is willing to be in contact with other doctors that do, as dosing is somewhat tricky and some of the literature recommends a dose that is too high for most ME/CFS patients. Prices also vary a great deal from source to source.

Best,
Sushi
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,270
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Who here has success treating bacterial and/or viral infections? Any suggestions for the following?

Vitamin C is a potent viricide, bacteriacide, fungicide and parasiticide. IV Vitamin C and liposomal Vitamin C (reputed to be as or more effective than IV Vit. C) can be very effective against a wide variety of pathogens, including polio. Google Thomas Levy and Dr. Klenner for more info.
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
@Martial

P.S. If you are thinking of GcMAF, it is important to do some testing before trying it as it is not suitable for those with certain conditions like high levels of inflammation. Also, Lyme patients seem to have a harder time tolerating it, but then I guess you have been treating Lyme for sometime? So that might not apply to you.

It is good to have a doctor with GcMAF experience or one who is willing to be in contact with other doctors that do, as dosing is somewhat tricky and some of the literature recommends a dose that is too high for most ME/CFS patients. Prices also vary a great deal from source to source.

Best,
Sushi

Hmm might not want to jump into that too quick then.. I have very high inflammation from the lyme right now, especially in the brain which kind of worries me.... I have only been treating it for 6 months and had gotten bitten 2 or so years ago
 

dmholmes

Senior Member
Messages
350
Location
Houston
@dmholmesFor Lyme I guess you mean Borrelia because the co-infections have their own requirements. I treated Borrelia and Cpn mainly with antibiotics (natural treatments did not work well) by using combinations effective against both.

It is from Labcorp Western Blot. The only positive marker was Lyme IgM P39. Is that worth following up on? Burgdorferi, Bartonella, Babesia all negative.
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
@dmholmes

Lyme disease testing is not always 100% accurate all of the time, testing in general can be difficult as spirochetes can go in and out of remission, this will cause them to miss the antibodies.

Just because you test negative for other co infection does not mean you do not have them for sure, the best way to find out is take a challenge test so that you draw infection out of the system.. Do this by taking a treatment plan of either pharmaceutical antibiotics, or potent herbal antibiotics,.. Once you get a herx kill off reaction or a flare in symptoms then re test and they will likely find exactly the anti bodies and co infections that are there.

the good news about co infection killing treatments is that they all cover the whole list of co infection, this means regardless of what you may have they are all being treated regardless..
Lyme disease co infections can include both viral components, and parasitic.

*note that treatment has to include something that treats co infection, if you are not using something that targets specific co infections it will not show up.. Banderol, Cats Claw, Samento, and certain pharm antibiotics treat co infection as well, I do not know which specific pharm abx do though..

Absolutely follow up with that! Did you ever do any viral panels? anything come up in significance? There are also a few other lyme co infections that you did not mention like ehrlichiosis, lone star fever, and the most dangerous for some the mycoplasma co infection.

I would be very quick in treating lyme of any type as the longer you wait the more it gets into the system, complications, and longer treatment...

Lyme with co infection can make you VERY sick, absolutely follow up!

I am finding out more and more how many people with CFS or on this forum have lyme and never sought treatment..
for a lot here lyme seems to be why so many are sick and possibly their recovery if they just treat the infection!

Lyme disease is a whole body infection, it gets into every system of the body and hi jacks the immune system, you can bet if you have lyme and M.E. that you will not be able to fully treat the M.E. without clearing out the infection first..
 
Last edited:

dmholmes

Senior Member
Messages
350
Location
Houston
@Martial thanks for the encouragement. I'm going to follow up with an LLMD. The other infections I tested positive for are listed at the beginning. The lab was fairly comprehensive NK, Ehrlichia, Candida, H. Pylori, RMSF, Trichinella all negative.
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
It is from Labcorp Western Blot. The only positive marker was Lyme IgM P39. Is that worth following up on? Burgdorferi, Bartonella, Babesia all negative.
Sorry I did not see this...Martial has already answered. Also for an idea of the role of testing in diagnosing Borrelia and co-infections it is worth reading Burrascano's guidelines and finding an LLMD who is experienced enough to make a clinical diagnosis.
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
I am about to start treating Bartonella with antibiotics but expect that will take several years. :nervous:
Sushi
@Sushi, it should take weeks with the right protocol. It was easier and quicker than Borrelia which never goes away completely in any case. Good luck.
 

dmholmes

Senior Member
Messages
350
Location
Houston
Sorry I did not see this...Martial has already answered. Also for an idea of the role of testing in diagnosing Borrelia and co-infections it is worth reading Burrascano's guidelines and finding an LLMD who is experienced enough to make a clinical diagnosis.

Thanks. I have contacted a LLMD and waiting to hear back. Actually the doctor that diagnosed me with CFS is a LLMD, but we didn't talk about it at the time and I'm not sure what was tested then either.