Thyroid antibodies dropped significantly

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Likes
1,031
I'm wondering whether anyone can throw some light on this situation.

Four months ago I went gluten free with the hope of lowering my antibodies. I can't really believe it but after a month they halved and then at three months they have halved again. (220-112-61).

The trouble is I am JUST as symptomatic as when they were higher.

Why aren't I feeling better? Surely 61 is much better than 220? Wouldnt my symptoms (swinging from hyper to hypo) be reduced? the only thing I have noticed is that I do not cough so much.

Do you think you can still be symptomatic at TPO 61? Do I need to be at 30 or lower to assess? Possibly at 0?

I am so pleased but so disappointed as well. I thought my health would improve as the antibodies went down.

Encouragement please....thought id be so happy but Im just scared that low antibodies is not going to make ANY difference to how I feel
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Likes
1,031
TSH is 2.2
T4 is 14.

Always seem to be at this level except for once when TSH went to 12.

Do you think it is even worth reducing antibodies?
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,057
Likes
4,274
Reducing antibodies per se shouldn't be a goal, it will be a consequence when the problem is properly addressed. For this, you need anti-thyroglobulin, free T4, free T3, reverse T3 results.
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Likes
1,031
I thought with hashimotos that treating the immune system was the most important thing to do.
I have been checked for viruses and Im ok luckily.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,317
Likes
1,918
Have you ever read that Hashimoto's usually involves EBV? The antibodies are not just from gluten.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,057
Likes
4,274
In my personal experience Hashimoto's is about being unable to convert T4 into T3 (why?), therefore increasing reverse T3.
 
Messages
5,256
Likes
32,032
I don't know where the inability to convert T4 to T3 occurs, but when there is autoimmunity there usually is a pathogen. I say usually because I have seen discussion about aseptic autoimmunity caused by various drugs such as statins. But here's a link to info about EBV in Hashimoto's.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2010/06/27/be-aware-of-the-epstein-barr-virus/
I don't think you should take any notice of antibody levels in this situation, Violeta. The antibodies measured by standard tests probably mostly have nothing to do with symptoms. IMmunology just does not work like that. I agree with Gondwanaland that you can reasonably expect the antibodies to go away once the immune attack on the thyroid has gone away but trying to change the antibody levels is a waste of time. That at least is what I think every thyroid specialist in a university hospital would say.

I doubt that viruses or other microbes have much to do with it. They don't seem to have much to do with autoimmunity in general.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,317
Likes
1,918
I don't think you should take any notice of antibody levels in this situation, Violeta. The antibodies measured by standard tests probably mostly have nothing to do with symptoms. IMmunology just does not work like that. I agree with Gondwanaland that you can reasonably expect the antibodies to go away once the immune attack on the thyroid has gone away but trying to change the antibody levels is a waste of time. That at least is what I think every thyroid specialist in a university hospital would say.

I doubt that viruses or other microbes have much to do with it. They don't seem to have much to do with autoimmunity in general.
I don't know what makes you say that viruses don't have much to do with autoimmunity, but here's a link to autoimmune diseases and a pathogen. I'll be back after work with more links, just in case you're interested. ;)

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2013/535738/

Epstein-Barr Virus in Systemic Autoimmune Diseases
 
Last edited:
Messages
5,256
Likes
32,032
I don't know what makes you say that viruses don't have much to do with autoimmunity, but here's a link to autoimmune diseases and a pathogen. I'll be back after work with more links, just in case you're interested. ;)

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2013/535738/
The reason I say that viruses don't have much to do with autoimmunity is that I spent the twenty five years of my senior research career studying the mechanisms of autoimmunity and found no convincing evidence in the literature for a causal link. EBV has been popular as a causal factor since the 1980s but nobody has found anything conclusive. My mother was in charge of EBV testing in the UK when I was young and she worked together with a number of people on a possible role in autoimmunity. We discussed it often over the years and concluded that nothing amounted to much. Immunologists with not much imagination go on suggesting that viruses cause things because they do not have any new ideas or a wider perspective. Articles trying to show EBV is immportant will go on appearing year after year but as far as I can see nothing is new. The article you quoted is by people who really don't have much knowledge of the diseases they want to explain. People write articles like this so they can apply for grant money on the tests they like doing.

I am sorry to be repetitive but immunobabble is just as bad as the psychobabble - I sometimes wonder if science as a whole is just babble now - driven by needing to get money from other babblers.
 

Mij

Senior Member
Messages
2,353
Likes
4,981
@digitald
I thought with hashimotos that treating the immune system was the most important thing to do.
I have been checked for viruses and Im ok luckily.
I had extremely elevated anti-thyroid antibodies during my sudden onset. They did a thyroid scan and my thyroid function was fine. The antibodies went down on their own. The initial viral attack was over. The jitterness went away but I was still sick.

It was advised by an M.E specialist and endo not to treat the thyroid. I was also told by my GP that I might develop hypo thyroid down the road in 14-20 yrs.
 

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
Likes
1,488
No it went in the tank somewhere around 1990 is my guess - when everything got based on 'bibliometrics' - you only get a salary if you score enough citation points each year. People started talking about 'publishing well' as if they were counting their gold coins.
Definitely agree with that.
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Likes
1,031
My antibodies have dropped from 250 to 61 in three months. I thought it was due to giving up gluten.

I do not feel any better although I cough less (big deal!)

Am I right in thinking (Jonathan Edwards?) that it really makes no difference if my antibodies are high or low? Even though I feel no better, I still felt a sense of achievement in getting them down as it must be better for my body with lower antibodies. Is this rubbish? Could I have high antibodies and be just as ill?

Perhaps it wasn't the gluten at all. Perhaps antibodies just go up and down on their own accord.

I was holding out a lot of hope that lowering antibodies would bring about a health change but this hasn't seemed the case (although I still have antibodies so perhaps I have to get them lower).

Shall I just start eating gluten again? I feel no better so maybe the lowering of antibodies is a waste of time.

I hope this makes sense and thank you so much for all your answers.

DD
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Likes
1,031
Mijj,

Do you mean sudden onset of ME? Did ME make your antibodies high? Was it a virus that made your antibodies high?

My TSH was high (14) one week and then normal the next but with the high antibodies my doctor said I should take thyroxine. He said I would most probably have hypothyroidism within five years anyway. I tried thyroxine but became VERY sick. I am too scare to try armour after the thyroxine debacle.

Perhaps I should just forget about the bloody thyroid and wait until my TSH is constantly high.

Think I was trying to hold onto it being the answer to all my health problems. Not sure there is an answer really :(
 

Mij

Senior Member
Messages
2,353
Likes
4,981
@digital dog yes sudden onset. My antibodies went high within the first six months of becoming ill. They tell me it was viral. I'm not sure which viral testing they did, if any.

I think you should go with the advice of your doctor. I don't know if my TSH was high during that time though. The M.E specialist I saw told me specifically that he was glad my GP did not "treat" my thyroid during that time. I'm assuming my TSH was normal range?

In the last 10 yrs my TSH has been going up (2.98) slowly, but it has been 2 at times. I'm not sure what this all means.

TSH at 14 is high though.
 

Mij

Senior Member
Messages
2,353
Likes
4,981
If I remember, I'd have to look through my files, but my antibodies were at 2500(!)