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This helps me,,, but why -- [Cold showers/baths]

Messages
39
Hi Everyone
I dont often post,,, but i know there is alot of great advice on here,, i have had this illness only 36 months,,
i suffer only with severe head pain and pain in my neck glands, no pain anywhere else, and no fatigue,,,
its there 3/4 hrs a day,, alot will suggest i dont have cfs/me.
i was told only by my doctor that it is..I believe i do have it because soon has i try any sort of exercise,,,, 48 hrs later my head pain will last for 3/4 days along with pain in my neck glands, also i get pain in parts of my face.

I can get rid of all my pain by taking a 2/3 minute cold bath fully submerged, or cold cold shower 2/3 min,.this totally relives me of any pain and it can last all day.
My question is its not a good experience and i am dreading winter,,lol,, what is happening to my body when i do this and is there any medication that would have the same affect,,,
apologises for grammar and spelling
Darran
 
Messages
70
Hi Darran. I’ve no idea why cold helps. I had whiplash following a car accident (on top of ME) and was in v bad pain. My Physio suggested cold showers, not amused as was v cold Jan), but gave it a go and really helped. She thought it helped calm the whole central nervous system down. Oddly enough my body really loved it, and still do it sometimes, even though back pain from accident gone.

Some people with ME/CFS seem to report that anything that calms flight/fight response & shift to rest & recover mode does seem to help (management, not cure). Which particular thing helps differs from person to person: what helps one person or one day, could cause setback in/on another. Biological mechanism/ reason why is not clear to me.

Big question is that fatigue is such a clear marker of this illness, is it worth getting a second experienced opinion from a Dr with an established ME practice? Could be missing something else v important.
 

Wonko

Senior Member
Messages
1,467
Location
The other side.
Not medical but one thing, amongst many, that occurs with cold water immersion is redistribution of blood from the skin to other organs, in an attempt to preserve body temp. I wouldn't have thought it was normal for this effect to last all day tho.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
severe head pain and pain in my neck glands

When you say "head pain", do you mean a headache, or is it a pain localized to an area of your head? Where is this pain in your head? The forehead? The back of the head? Side of the head near the ears?
 
Messages
39
Hi Darran. I’ve no idea why cold helps. I had whiplash following a car accident (on top of ME) and was in v bad pain. My Physio suggested cold showers, not amused as was v cold Jan), but gave it a go and really helped. She thought it helped calm the whole central nervous system down. Oddly enough my body really loved it, and still do it sometimes, even though back pain from accident gone.

Some people with ME/CFS seem to report that anything that calms flight/fight response & shift to rest & recover mode does seem to help (management, not cure). Which particular thing helps differs from person to person: what helps one person or one day, could cause setback in/on another. Biological mechanism/ reason why is not clear to me.

Big question is that fatigue is such a clear marker of this illness, is it worth getting a second experienced opinion from a Dr with an established ME practice? Could be missing something else v important.
Hi Ruth
thanks for replying, yes may look at seeing another specilist doctor,,, ive had mri scan on head,, but all seemed ok
just dread during cold bath,, yes meditation also helps
darran
 
Messages
39
When you say "head pain", do you mean a headache, or is it a pain localized to an area of your head? Where is this pain in your head? The forehead? The back of the head? Side of the head near the ears?
Hi Hip
thanks for replying,, its not like a normal headache. Its located sides of head, top of head and back of head,, never get pain in the forehead or front of head,, the pain lasts 2/3 mins then goes,, then will reappear within a few minutes
feels like someone is squeexing spelt wrong,, lol,, my arteries in my head and then releasing them its awful
i have had everyday for the last 3 years,
 
Messages
70
Hi Ruth
thanks for replying, yes may look at seeing another specilist doctor,,, ive had mri scan on head,, but all seemed ok
just dread during cold bath,, yes meditation also helps
darran
Hi Darran. Just watched the YouTube video of Prof Montoya talk at #CMRC17 hich is v interesting & helpful. Thought you might be interested in the diagnosis of other conditions misdiagnosed as MECFS, about 36 mins in.
 

helen1

Senior Member
Messages
1,033
Location
Canada
A cold bath or cold water swim reduces most of my symptoms almost completely for an hour or two. I thought it was about increased endorphins and reduced inflammation but I see from the above comments it could be other things too.
 
Messages
3,263
I can get rid of all my pain by taking a 2/3 minute cold bath fully submerged, or cold cold shower 2/3 min,.this totally relives me of any pain and it can last all day.
My question is its not a good experience and i am dreading winter,,lol,, what is happening to my body when i do this and is there any medication that would have the same affect,,,
Darran, cold baths have worked for me in the past too. For me, the effect lasts about 24 hours, like you said. Interestingly, I also have very bad headaches and pain in my throat glands.

But its always a question of whether that 3 minutes of absolute torture is worth it, isn't it?

I don't know if you have MECFS. But either way, the defining characteristics of MECFS are kind of arbitrary. Your throat gland pain sort of hints at some sort of inflammation/immune activity, and the fact that it gets worse a day or so after exertion also seems consistent with that idea.

I'm figuring you're getting good medical care, so they have ruled out other nasties? Just the same, the kind of pulsing, throbbing feeling you get in your head you describe made me think of high blood pressure. Would be good to rule that out, if you haven't already.

Whether or not your problem is related to inflammation, it could be worth seeing if NSAIDS give you some measure of relief. Things like ibuprofen and naproxen are available over the counter in many countries (not sure what the brand names would be in your country). If you haven't already tried them, might be worth giving them a go.
 

Fogbuster

Senior Member
Messages
269
Cold exposure has a pretty tremendous effect at reducing my symptoms and general stress hormones. I highly recommend trying to gradually embrace more cold exposure in your day to day life. It makes me feel great, this thread has reminded me how much benefit and better functionality I get from being outside in the cold, with of course the right amount of clothing.
 
Messages
39
Darran, cold baths have worked for me in the past too. For me, the effect lasts about 24 hours, like you said. Interestingly, I also have very bad headaches and pain in my throat glands.

But its always a question of whether that 3 minutes of absolute torture is worth it, isn't it?

I don't know if you have MECFS. But either way, the defining characteristics of MECFS are kind of arbitrary. Your throat gland pain sort of hints at some sort of inflammation/immune activity, and the fact that it gets worse a day or so after exertion also seems consistent with that idea.

I'm figuring you're getting good medical care, so they have ruled out other nasties? Just the same, the kind of pulsing, throbbing feeling you get in your head you describe made me think of high blood pressure. Would be good to rule that out, if you haven't already.

Whether or not your problem is related to inflammation, it could be worth seeing if NSAIDS give you some measure of relief. Things like ibuprofen and naproxen are available over the counter in many countries (not sure what the brand names would be in your country). If you haven't already tried them, might be worth giving them a go.
Hi Wookiee
Thanks for replying yes the cold baths are awful
But I get relief for almost a full day I submerge my full body I dread it
I do suffer with high blood pressure but I don't feel this is the cause can high blood pressure cause severe head pain,,, thanks for some great advice what helps with your head pain
Darran
 

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,691
I have a lot of inflammation in my back and neck, and cold packs I keep in the freezer help a lot.

Several years ago I did cryotherapy at a clinic here in town. I did about 6 sessions and got a lot of pain relief. However, even though I did them early in the morning, the sessions had a terrible effect on my sleep. I think they overstimulated my sympathetic nervous system.
 

J.G

Senior Member
Messages
162
I'm glad I found this thread.

I've had ME/CFS for years. About a month ago, I started thinking about lactate accumulation / clearance in ME/CFS. If Newton's studies are to be trusted (Cort's overview here), we produce a lot of lactate. (Probably because, as we know from Fluge & Mella's study, pyruvate dehydrogenase is inhibited, crippling the Krebs cycle, forcing us to instead get much of our energy from the messier process of glycolysis.) Too much for the body to clear fast. It may be a prime cause of brain fog and sore muscles.

Lactate clearance is of course a problem in healthy people, too. Athletes in particular go to great lengths to boost their recovery. I remember reading years ago that ice baths - for reasons we don't fully understand - speed up exercise recovery. So I decided to give it a shot.

It helps. It really does. I don't know why, but for an hour or so after I take an absolutely frigid shower, I feel much better than usual. The effect gradually fades as the minutes go by.

So I've been thinking about it some more. Improved lactate clearance may be a factor. I have PoTS as well, and presumably exposure to icy cold consticts veins, which could be beneficial. So it looks like cold showers could be a double whammy: speed up post-exertion recovery and provide helpful vasoconstriction. Or maybe the effect simply comes from vagal tone stimulation.

Frigid showers are not pleasant. Even easing into it by gradually lowering the water temperate, I loathe taking them. But so far, they help. The effect isn't overwhelming, but noticeable nonetheless. It hasn't expanded my "energy envelope", but my QoL is a little higher during those post-shower hours.

Will the effects of icy showers last? I don't know. I'll report back in a few weeks / months and let you know if they're still helpful.

P.S. Please be careful. Don't give yourself a heart attack.

EDIT: wrote protein catabolism where I meant to say glycolysis. Fixed.
 
Last edited:
Messages
70
I'm glad I found this thread.

I've had ME/CFS for years. About a month ago, I started thinking about lactate accumulation / clearance in ME/CFS. If Newton's studies are to be trusted (Cort's overview here), we produce a lot of lactate. (Probably because, as we know from Fluge & Mella's study, pyruvate dehydrogenase is inhibited, crippling the Krebs cycle, forcing us to instead get much of our energy from the messier process of protein catabolism.) Too much for the body to clear fast. It may be a prime cause of brain fog and sore muscles.

Lactate clearance is of course a problem in healthy people, too. Athletes in particular go to great lengths to boost their recovery. I remember reading years ago that ice baths - for reasons we don't fully understand - speed up exercise recovery. So I decided to give it a shot.

Thank you J.G. Really thoughtful post, so googled general advice re dealing with lactic acid build up and found advice which echoes what I already have found to be helpful in easing symptoms:

Hydrate
Be consistent in activity (ie don’t push envelope)
Increase activity very gently
Back off & slow up immediately symptoms show
Stretch
Foam roller to disperse lactic acids & release muscles.

Will pursue.

https://www.completenutrition.com/blog/how-to-reduce-the-buildup-of-lactic-acid
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,300
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Frigid showers are not pleasant. Even easing into it by gradually lowering the water temperate, I loathe taking them.

Hi @J.G,

Have you ever tried just laying on an ice pack to see if that might help? I almost always feel better after laying on an icepack, And even with that, I treat myself very gently. I put a thick towel over it, so that it kind of gradually gets cooler and cooler--never unpleasant. I'm glad I discovered this as cold showers are too extreme for me.​