THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

drmullin30

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@Learner1 how much does the Metabolomix+ test cost? They won't tell you until you order! WTF! Also can I get this without my doctor because that will be an issue.
 

Learner1

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@Learner1 how much does the Metabolomix+ test cost? They won't tell you until you order! WTF! Also can I get this without my doctor because that will be an issue.
Yes, you need a doctor to order it just like most lab tests. They have a find a doctor feature on their site, or if you are a doctor like your name says, you should be able to order it. The format is easy these days, you can do the entire kit at home with urine, then poking your finger and putting blood on a card. If you use the prepay option, with your doctor will tell you about, it should be about $179.
 

drmullin30

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if you are a doctor like your name says,
Haha no I'm not a doctor my initials are DR and always cause this confusion and I don't know how to change my username.

I'm actually a systems safety and reliability engineer.

Thanks, that's not an inexpensive test so I'll need to think about it. I also have to pay to see my doctor so total costs for me will be close to $500 CDN so I'm not sure I'll pursue that at this point.
 
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Learner1

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Haha no I'm not a doctor my initials are DR and always cause this confusion and I don't know how to change my username.

I'm actually a systems safety and reliability engineer.

Thanks, that's not an inexpensive test so I'll need to think about it. I also have to pay to see my doctor so total costs for me will be close to $500 CDN so I'm not sure I'll pursue that at this point.
The moderators should be able to help you change your username if you like.

Your engineering background should probably be helpful. But, getting good information to base your decision making on is a good value in the long run. Better than making bad decisions that cost money and time. You might check into a Great Plains OAT test, coupled with a Doctor's Data essential mineral and heavy metal urine test. This would leave out lipids for cell membranes, antioxidants, and a number of other things, but would give you more information than you have now.
 

Crux

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@drmullin30 ,

Life Extension offers blood tests.
Their CBC includes calcium, phosphorus, and more.
They also offer a serum PTH test. ( parathyroid hormone )

I'll be getting those soon.
I've been taking a parathyroid glandular for a couple of months. It's reducing my need for calcium
and my paresthesias.
 

Learner1

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@jhlyon you describe my sudden onset of insomnia exactly. Fredd's clusters of symptoms have not applied to me after 2 months of low and slow methylation--1000 mcg cocktail of B12 forms + 200 mcg folate + multi of cofactors.

Fatigue and sleep have improved 50% until I ran out of folate, but I continued Bs for two weeks until I had a strong onset of insomnia--body tired, brain alert--which feels like an earlier episode of glutamate elevation after too much taurine.

Cutting B12 to 500 immediately reduced the insomnia from onset (all night) to maintenance insomnia (2am to 4am on). Will see if possibly too high levels of B12 clear in the week it takes to refill my folate and then I will restart slowly up to my original ratio.

Don't think electrolytes / potassium are my issue as I have been drinking Trace Minerals like mother's milk.

Unless low potassium can present as insomnia with none of the other more typical hypo symptoms?

Can B12 with inadequate folate lead to insomnia or potassium-induced insomnia w/o elevated heart, twitching etc.? On another thread someone talked about balancing the energy of B12 with calming effects of folate...but there are more threads in which people blame folate for insomnia.
 
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Hi freddd, I got severe insomnia ( can not sleep at all) from second dose of methylcobalamin, like full blown insomnia. Never had any sleep issues.... I tried niacin and niacinamide for a month even on high doses 1000mg, but it did not work at all..... I am still suffering from extreme insomnia.
 

Freddd

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Hi freddd, I got severe insomnia ( can not sleep at all) from second dose of methylcobalamin, like full blown insomnia. Never had any sleep issues.... I tried niacin and niacinamide for a month even on high doses 1000mg, but it did not work at all..... I am still suffering from extreme insomnia.
Thje things that make for insomnia with B12 is needing more of one or more of these; methylfolate, AdoCbl, l-carnitine, vitamin D, possibly others or combinations. I was down to 2 ho urs a night when vit D went too low to support methylation.
 
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Hello. Thank you very much for the valuable information. I'm new to this forum, but I've been trying to understand these complex methylation processes for several years.

My health deteriorated critically 2 years ago, there was a sports injury and treatment with antibacterial drugs. At the moment, I feel acute mitochondrial dysfunction, so I ask Freddd and other forum members to suggest their opinion on my symptoms and tests and give advice on recovery. For completeness, I will describe the reactions to some supplements.


The symptoms are the most important in my opinion and the most painful:
1. Permanent constipation. Previously, I never suffered from this, now constipation brings a strong pulling pain in the body. I have to resort to laxatives
2. Pain in the diaphragm, difficulty breathing, according to the results of ultrasound, the right dome of the diaphragm moves worse than the left.
Constant pulling pain in the liver and gallbladder. There are moments as if you don't have the strength to breathe. Oxygen is poorly supplied to organs and tissues.
3. Impossibility of physical exertion. I am now 32 years old, until the age of 30 I was constantly able to endure serious physical exertion. Right away
4. Stopped tolerating gluten, dairy products
5. A strong food and chemical intolerance has formed. Regarding food, I think I react most acutely to histamine products. Activation of mast cells or histamine intolerance is possible.
6. Muscle pain in different parts of the body. Tendon pain. The muscles don't seem to work. Tendon reflexes are weak. Connective tissue problems, ptosis
7. Swelling, especially on the abdomen. Fluid retention is regular, from it pulling pains even more.
8. Interruptions in the work of the heart, arrhythmia
9. Intolerance to products with sulfur content and additives
10. Sometimes muscle spasms are very strong from movements, turns, squats. Basically a spasm in the abdominal muscles.

The tests are the most important (from what I managed to pass during these 2 years):
1. Homozygous mutation MTHFR A1298C(Glu429Ala) C/C
2. Homozygous mutation MTRR gene: Ile22Met (A66G), MET/MET
3. Homocysteine - 7.4
4. Folic acid above the maximum reference values (lack of methylfolate in the cell?)
5. Vitamin B12 at maximum reference values (lack of active forms in the cell?)
6. Copper is very small
7. Lithium - almost at zero
8. Vitamin D - greatly underestimated

Supplements that I tried and the reaction to them (most supplements do not tolerate):
1. Glutathione. Just destroys me and throws me far back. I did droppers, also tried to take liposomal. All the symptoms worsened, especially breathing became difficult, the diaphragm seems to be blocked, the vessels enter into a strong spasm. The only plus is that sleep is being adjusted.
2. Vitamin D. I can not tolerate even 200 IU - again a spasm of the diaphragm and pain and heaviness in the right side, deterioration of the condition.
3. Vitamin C - relatively well tolerated in small doses
4. Omega 3 - not tolerated
5. B2 (in active form) - I can't stand it
6. Molybdenum - somewhat helps to improve breathing after taking sulfur-containing products
7. TMG 500mg - again it is difficult to breathe, spasm in the right side, diaphragm.
8. SAMe - I tolerate well, sleep and mood are improving.
9. Iodine - worsening symptoms , breathing problems , histamine ?
10. Methylcobalamin b12 + adenosylcobalamin b12 sublingually - well tolerated 1/4 tablet from 1000mcg.
Joint reception for a while allows me to breathe without difficulty, the range of the diaphragm increases
11. Folate L-5-MTHF sublingual - at a dose of 200mcg and even less affects sleep negatively. The mood worsens. But I never drank it for more than 7 days. Can't make a start
12. Magnesium is mainly in small quantities
The remaining multiple supplements are usually poorly tolerated, cause complications of symptoms, difficulty breathing, swelling, etc.

Tell me please, how can you get rid of constipation, fluid retention, start to transfer important vitamins, etc.? Every time I thought I was better I rolled back. I tried to drink L-carnitine a year ago without b12, the reaction was very severe. I'm afraid that the symptoms from the diaphragm are frightening, at least for me.
 

Freddd

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Check out the lists of symptoms in the two lists of them. Make a list of all those which you have. All the ones in the two lists can be substantially improved with nutrition. If yo u read you will find why having varnitgine do wonders for you seems awful is becasue of refeeding syndrome. Read the link at least 2 or 3 times to get ta better picture. Then let's talk about it and your answers. Lack of copper can damage you a lot. You won';t be qable to build up to normal levels without lithium and the Transcobalamin Receptor - Lithium (TCR-Li) It took me 5 to 6 years to grow enough to change everything. IN the meantimnme I figured pout the rest of itand hads 17 years of healing. Be well.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186
 

Freddd

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Hello. Thank you very much for the valuable information. I'm new to this forum, but I've been trying to understand these complex methylation processes for several years.

My health deteriorated critically 2 years ago, there was a sports injury and treatment with antibacterial drugs. At the moment, I feel acute mitochondrial dysfunction, so I ask Freddd and other forum members to suggest their opinion on my symptoms and tests and give advice on recovery. For completeness, I will describe the reactions to some supplements.


The symptoms are the most important in my opinion and the most painful:
1. Permanent constipation. Previously, I never suffered from this, now constipation brings a strong pulling pain in the body. I have to resort to laxatives
2. Pain in the diaphragm, difficulty breathing, according to the results of ultrasound, the right dome of the diaphragm moves worse than the left.
Constant pulling pain in the liver and gallbladder. There are moments as if you don't have the strength to breathe. Oxygen is poorly supplied to organs and tissues.
3. Impossibility of physical exertion. I am now 32 years old, until the age of 30 I was constantly able to endure serious physical exertion. Right away
4. Stopped tolerating gluten, dairy products
5. A strong food and chemical intolerance has formed. Regarding food, I think I react most acutely to histamine products. Activation of mast cells or histamine intolerance is possible.
6. Muscle pain in different parts of the body. Tendon pain. The muscles don't seem to work. Tendon reflexes are weak. Connective tissue problems, ptosis
7. Swelling, especially on the abdomen. Fluid retention is regular, from it pulling pains even more.
8. Interruptions in the work of the heart, arrhythmia
9. Intolerance to products with sulfur content and additives
10. Sometimes muscle spasms are very strong from movements, turns, squats. Basically a spasm in the abdominal muscles.

The tests are the most important (from what I managed to pass during these 2 years):
1. Homozygous mutation MTHFR A1298C(Glu429Ala) C/C
2. Homozygous mutation MTRR gene: Ile22Met (A66G), MET/MET
3. Homocysteine - 7.4
4. Folic acid above the maximum reference values (lack of methylfolate in the cell?)
5. Vitamin B12 at maximum reference values (lack of active forms in the cell?)
6. Copper is very small
7. Lithium - almost at zero
8. Vitamin D - greatly underestimated

Supplements that I tried and the reaction to them (most supplements do not tolerate):
1. Glutathione. Just destroys me and throws me far back. I did droppers, also tried to take liposomal. All the symptoms worsened, especially breathing became difficult, the diaphragm seems to be blocked, the vessels enter into a strong spasm. The only plus is that sleep is being adjusted.
2. Vitamin D. I can not tolerate even 200 IU - again a spasm of the diaphragm and pain and heaviness in the right side, deterioration of the condition.
3. Vitamin C - relatively well tolerated in small doses
4. Omega 3 - not tolerated
5. B2 (in active form) - I can't stand it
6. Molybdenum - somewhat helps to improve breathing after taking sulfur-containing products
7. TMG 500mg - again it is difficult to breathe, spasm in the right side, diaphragm.
8. SAMe - I tolerate well, sleep and mood are improving.
9. Iodine - worsening symptoms , breathing problems , histamine ?
10. Methylcobalamin b12 + adenosylcobalamin b12 sublingually - well tolerated 1/4 tablet from 1000mcg.
Joint reception for a while allows me to breathe without difficulty, the range of the diaphragm increases
11. Folate L-5-MTHF sublingual - at a dose of 200mcg and even less affects sleep negatively. The mood worsens. But I never drank it for more than 7 days. Can't make a start
12. Magnesium is mainly in small quantities
The remaining multiple supplements are usually poorly tolerated, cause complications of symptoms, difficulty breathing, swelling, etc.

Tell me please, how can you get rid of constipation, fluid retention, start to transfer important vitamins, etc.? Every time I thought I was better I rolled back. I tried to drink L-carnitine a year ago without b12, the reaction was very severe. I'm afraid that the symptoms from the diaphragm are frightening, at least for me.
Read the thing several times and then we can discuss it and get it clear. Sounds like you are having really bearable refeeding syndrome.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186
 
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Read the thing several times and then we can discuss it and get it clear. Sounds like you are having really bearable refeeding syndrome.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

Fredd, first of all I want to say a big thank you for what you do, for helping people. You've done a great job, spending countless hours. And thank you for taking the time to answer me.

I study all your materials, at first it's too difficult, but I reread everything several times and find answers to my questions. I hope that after I get better, we will talk in more detail about mitochondrial problems, including those that can be caused by antibiotics (mainly fluoroquinolones).

And now I will write a list of my symptoms from your list, with the exception of those that I have already indicated:

1) morning stiffness and joint pain
2) neuropathic bladder
can not release the bladder, mild from severe
inability to completely empty the bladder
3) intolerance to loud sounds
intolerance to multiple sounds
4) sleep disorders
non-restorative sleep
5) Night terrors
6) change of touch throughout the body, ordinary touch can be unpleasant and painful
7) burning pain in the muscles
8) Stomach does not empty
9) flatulence
stool disorder
abdominal pain
10) intermittent constipation and very rarely
intermittent diarrhea
11) irritable bowel syndrome
12) Anorexia of the tract or any part of it
13) Hypersensitivity to touch
14) Increased sensitivity to odors
15) Hypersensitivity to tastes
16) Hypersensitivity to the texture of clothing
17) Hypersensitivity to body dysfunctions, symptoms
18) Hypersensitivity to sounds and noises
19) Hypersensitivity to light and visual stimuli
20) Hypersensitivity to changes in blood sugar levels
21) Hypersensitivity to internal metabolic changes
22) Increased sensitivity to temperature changes
23) increased average platelet volume
24) Reduced neutrophils
25) elevated lymphocytes
26) inflamed epithelial tissues - mucous membranes, skin, gastrointestinal tract, lungs
27) inflamed endothelial tissues - mucous membrane of veins and arteries
28) asthma?
29) frequent acne rashes on the face
chronic infections, possibly many varieties
30) lack of dreams
31) widespread pain in the body and muscles
32)unsteadiness of gait
33) ataxic gait, especially in the dark
34)Loss of sense of position in the joint
35) reduced reflexes
36) weight loss is involuntary in my case I lost 15 kg
muscle atrophy
exercise does not contribute to building muscle mass
37) severe abnormal muscle fatigue
physical exertion depletes for up to a week, which significantly worsens the condition;
accumulation of muscle pain after exercise ;
muscle pain throughout the body ;
lack of muscle recovery after exercise
38) shortness of breath, oxygen starvation,
39)frequent muscle spasms in any part of the body
40) weak pulse
41) mood swings
42) Dizziness more often at night

Now about the symptoms in the section Overfeeding:
1) Persistent violation of the motility of the stomach and intestines (constipation, insufficient emptying). It seemed to me that taking sublingual methylcobalamin at a dose of 500 mcg per day improved the motility of the stomach. At the same time , I was experimenting with methylfolate in microdoses . Maybe methylfolate has improved the situation with constipation ?
2) Six months ago, before I got acquainted with your scheme, I started treatment with sublingual methylcobalamin, I drank half a tablet from 1000mcg (500mcg) for two months and by the end of the second week I started having strong spontaneous spasms in the chest and trunk muscles. And also dizziness mostly at night. Now, thanks to you, I understand that it was a lack of potassium.

3) Edema, fluid retention in the body, in the abdomen, an overflowing bladder.
I noticed that when using 5MTHF+adenosylcobalamin+methylcobalamin (I have a complex supplement seeking health now) my excess fluid comes out with urine and it becomes easier for me. It turns out that 5-MTHF helps to remove excess fluid and reduce swelling?
4) Glutathione and methylfolate trap. A year ago, I put on a glutathione drip and all my symptoms intensified and new ones were added. It took me a while to realize that glutathione was to blame. This supplement only allowed me to sleep well, but everything went downhill after it. Later I tried liposomal glutathione and my symptoms started to develop again, my body pain increased, my stomach motility worsened.
5) Skin rash, an increase in the number of acne.
6) Hypersensitivity, runny nose, increased allergy
7) Problems with connective tissue, ptosis of organs. Now how do I understand this copper deficiency? Perhaps copper is a deterrent? Fredd, I'm sorry if something is not clearly written, it's translation difficulties.
8) Molybdenum. It really helps me to relieve the symptoms of sulfur sensitivity in small amounts. It turns out that this is due to the low level of copper that I had a year ago in blood tests?
9) Problems with the balance of methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin (lack of lithium). According to my blood tests, lithium was at zero. I really feel that if there is more methylcobalamin than adenosylcobalamin, then my mood is better. At the same time, if you take methylcobalamin separately, there will be a mitochondrial reaction with difficulty breathing and poor ATP
10) Symptoms of carnitine deficiency. I haven't tried fumarate yet. Alkar caused a severe reaction.
*******************************************
Fredd, I hope I have clearly stated the essence of the problem. Due to translation difficulties, I will differentiate the concepts of folic acid in the future. For example, folic acid is a synthetic form (in fortified foods, vitamins) . Folate is a natural form in leafy greens, for example. 5-MTHF - natural form (methylfolate in additives).
********************************************
I noticed that taking 5-MTHF in combination with active B12 makes my mood depressed, the duration and quality of sleep deteriorates. But at the same time, I have numerous pains in my body and my stomach does not work as slowly as without a supplement.
*****************************************
Wheatgrass wheat germ juice seems to help me breathe and improve my food and chemical intolerance. But I 'm worried won 't it block methylfolate ? Since there is a lot of vegetable folate in the juice.
****************"***************************
Royal jelly helps me to improve my mood . Perhaps because of BH4,? But there is a histamine reaction. I want to continue the reception.
*******************************************
In general, it seems to me that histamine has become a serious problem for me. My symptoms for many foods and supplements are very similar to the symptoms of mast cell activation. What is your opinion on this? I think this is due to a lack of methylfolate in the cells
********************************************
What do you think about blocking serotonin on dopamine receptors when taking methylfolate ?
********************************************
SAMe it seems to improve mood and sleep. I sometimes do an intramuscular injection of 400mg once a week
********************************************

I didn't seem to miss anything.
I will be very much waiting for your answer. Thank you for taking the time to answer and help us.
 

linusbert

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*******************************************
In general, it seems to me that histamine has become a serious problem for me. My symptoms for many foods and supplements are very similar to the symptoms of mast cell activation. What is your opinion on this? I think this is due to a lack of methylfolate in the cells
********************************************
i also have this problem. increasing allergies and intolerances. at this point its really annoying.
did u find any relief or at least a halt in progression?
 
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i also have this problem. increasing allergies and intolerances. at this point its really annoying.
did u find any relief or at least a halt in progression?

It is quite difficult to figure out what is the root cause of mast cell activation, but I have several versions on this score.
The first version (I believe in it most of all) is a partial violation of the methylation cycle or the methylfolate trap. But I'll make a reservation right away, I don't eat synthetic folic acid, gluten. Perhaps methylation disrupts the plant fallout from food (removes methylfolate from the cell). But I only tolerate microdoses of methylfolate and b12. And even they seem to me to mitigate the symptoms of histamine intolerance.

The second version is intestinal problems, the syndrome of excessive bacterial growth.

The third version is the lack of coenzymes for the DAO to work. as a rule, these are copper and calcium. Most likely I will try the DAO enzymes themselves.
Maybe all together...What do you think about all this. I would be grateful if you could share your experience with histamine.

And I completely forgot to say that it seems to me that glycine helps. After the histamine reaction, my stomach usually throbs violently, judging by everything, large vessels narrow and small ones expand, blood thickens, hypoxia becomes unbearable. And it was quite by chance that I discovered that this terrible condition passes after glycine.