THC or CBD oil for sleep?

[GlassCannonLife]

I am about to trial some THC oil to help with my sleep.

I currently take a multitude of supplements to try and help with it, but still wake multiple (5-10 or so) times during the night, sometimes struggling to fall back asleep. Most recently, I have also started having episodes of restless leg syndrome during the night which is even more of a pain to deal with...

I was hoping to find out if any of you have tried THC oil, for sleep or otherwise, or if you also tried and preferred CBD oil? I have read that THC actually agonists CB1 and CB2 receptors, while the effects of CBD appear to be more of an antagonist/anti-agonist (opposite effect on the receptors..). Despite this, I have found a very diverse range of recommendations on reddit etc., so I am not sure what is the best thing to use.

I have some concerns about using THC oil as I have read it can lead to dependence and receptor downregulation in general, although I saw a study where the receptors were normalised again in heavy users after 4 weeks of cessation of use. However, the THC oil I will be getting (through my doctor in Australia - currently prescription still although the laws are changing) is less than half the price of the CBD oil I could get, so I thought it was worth a trial at least.

I have also seen some mention of CB1 receptor issues, or issues with the endocannabinoid system in general, in the context of the perpetuation of CFS. Here is a relatively recent article from Health Rising about this.

Thanks all

 

[nerd]

As far as I can tell at the moment, Cannabinoids are histone deacetylase inhibitors, so they have the potential to reactivate viruses.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I was hoping to find out if any of you have tried THC oil, for sleep or otherwise, or if you also tried and preferred CBD oil?

this web site discusses some of this and variations in strains, etc.

https://www.healthline.com/health/best-strain-for-sleep#indica-vs-sativa

 

[GlassCannonLife]

As far as I can tell at the moment, Cannabinoids are histone deacetylase inhibitors, so they have the potential to reactivate viruses.

Oh... Thanks I'll look into this


Edit:

This article discusses how it actually can prevent reactivation of various herpes viruses. I'll keep looking though

 

[GlassCannonLife]

this web site discusses some of this and variations in strains, etc.

https://www.healthline.com/health/best-strain-for-sleep#indica-vs-sativa

Thanks I'll take a look!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I was hoping to find out if any of you have tried THC oil, for sleep or otherwise, or if you also tried and preferred CBD oil?

If you aren't used to using substances like THC, you should be careful, cautious and go very slowly.

I think THC works better to help with sleep. But you might have to get a bit used to it a bit, if you not used to it. and sometimes you might get sort of more awake for a while before sleepy sets in...so keep that in mind.

 

[nerd]

article discusses how it actually can prevent reactivation of various herpes viruses. I'll keep looking though

Are you sure that you referenced the correct article? The abstract doesn't mention CBD or Cannabinoids.

I found the following study:
Cannabinoids and Viral Infections (2010) [10.3390/ph3061873]

They also argue that it enhances lytic infections because of the inflammatory suppression.

Maybe you meant this one:
Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) inhibits lytic replication of gamma oncogenic herpesviruses in vitro (2004) [10.1186/1741-7015-2-34]

I will check it tomorrow. Maybe there's an additional mechanism that has stronger effects on herpes viruses than HDACs.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

Are you sure that you referenced the correct article? The abstract doesn't mention CBD or Cannabinoids.

I found the following study:
Cannabinoids and Viral Infections (2010) [10.3390/ph3061873]

They also argue that it enhances lytic infections because of the inflammatory suppression.

Maybe you meant this one:
Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) inhibits lytic replication of gamma oncogenic herpesviruses in vitro (2004) [10.1186/1741-7015-2-34]

I will check it tomorrow. Maybe there's an additional mechanism that has stronger effects on herpes viruses than HDACs.

Sorry, yes I copied the wrong thing! And yes, you did find the one that I meant - it was the one from 2004.

The top one you posted there is somewhat concerning, but I did notice (in Table 2) that the majority of the studies were in HSV and HIV... And there appears to be a varied effect in general. Eg the 3 week HIV clinical trial found no change in immunological response, but the mouse study found a 50x increase in viral replication.

Also, they say "In contrast, in those infections where host inflammatory responses are often associated with pathology, and not with clearance and recovery, cannabinoid treatment of hosts was beneficial." I wonder how that plays into CFS...

Very interesting conclusions though regardless. I might read into it all more, but I think at this stage it might become more of a "wait and see what happens" type of thing for me... I currently do get viruses from our toddler's day care every 2-4 weeks, which does not sound like is the best situation to be trying THC in, but on the other hand my sleep is quite terrible so maybe sleeping more would give me a net benefit anyway? A lot to think about. Thanks for your help.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

If you aren't used to using substances like THC, you should be careful, cautious and go very slowly.

I think THC works better to help with sleep. But you might have to get a bit used to it a bit, if you not used to it. and sometimes you might get sort of more awake for a while before sleepy sets in...so keep that in mind.

Cool thank you for the help!

 

[nerd]

Sorry, yes I copied the wrong thing! And yes, you did find the one that I meant - it was the one from 2004.

I checked it. Indeed, there is an additional interaction with specific reactivation mechanisms of gamma herpes viruses. But it doesn't affect HSV, for example. If we could be sure that it is EBV, this would be a fitting drug because HDAC inhibition is probably helpful within the symptomatic disease model. But within viral pathogenesis disease models, this can be harmful if not combined with antivirals. These antivirals can be typical virostatics, but they can also be suppressors of viral signaling such as THC for EBV or Ivermectin for a broader range of viruses; yet, with undetermined effective concentrations.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

I checked it. Indeed, there is an additional interaction with specific reactivation mechanisms of gamma herpes viruses. But it doesn't affect HSV, for example. If we could be sure that it is EBV, this would be a fitting drug because HDAC inhibition is probably helpful within the symptomatic disease model. But within viral pathogenesis disease models, this can be harmful if not combined with antivirals. These antivirals can be typical virostatics, but they can also be suppressors of viral signaling such as THC for EBV or Ivermectin for a broader range of viruses; yet, with undetermined effective concentrations.

Very well said. We should also probably note that the study was in vitro and I haven't seen any others that either replicate the same observations or expand into an in vivo context. So hopefully the effect on EBV (or potential effects on other HHVs?) are indeed true.

 

[Howard]

I was hoping to find out if any of you have tried THC oil, for sleep or otherwise, or if you also tried and preferred CBD oil?

Sorry for the LONG (painstakingly thorough) answer, but this is something I never ended up posting last year. It may well give you some insight.. either way.

Note: based upon blood work, I've seemed to have Chronic EBV for at least the past couple of years

Note #2: hadn't smoked any marijuana in 30 years, before this experimentation


Early 2020

Three Weeks Ago -

Thursday Night: took one hit of medical grade Indica utilizing a homemade foil pipe. 10% CBD / 2% THC

Felt slightly buzzed, nothing too intense. Went to sleep.

Friday: woke up Friday morning with burning aching muscles in arms and legs. Discomfort and a disproportionate amount of tiredness lasted half a day. Took another hit before bed on Friday night.

Saturday: slept 7 hours, no pain or complications upon waking. Extremely tired, suddenly fell asleep an hour later. Woke up, and then fell asleep 2 hours after that. Took a hit from the pipe and fell asleep 20 minutes after that. And then later Saturday evening took two more naps. I almost NEVER take any naps, so this behavior is abnormal. Felt awful.


Last Week

Wednesday: took one hit off of medical grade Sativa joint. 20% CBD / .3% THC

Felt somewhat buzzed, nothing too intense. Went to sleep.

Thursday: woke up Thursday morning with burning aching muscles in arms and legs. Discomfort and a disproportionate amount of tiredness lasted over half the day. Did not take any additional hits off of the joint.

Friday: slept 6 hours, no pain or complications upon waking. Extremely tired, suddenly fell asleep an hour after waking. Woke up, and then fell asleep two hours after that. Took two more long naps. VERY tired.


Last Year (2019)

When I experimented with vaping last year, a three-to-one ratio of CBD to THC (and eventually, a one-to-one ratio) I did not have any of these difficulties or side effects.

Vaping seemed to cause few side effects (besides irritating my lungs slightly), but the actual act of inhaling smoke seems to be very negatively impactful and may be the difference-maker.. or may have nothing to do with anything.

My sleep was vastly improved (hadn't slept through the night in years, plus RARE restful sleep overall), but I also began drinking Tart Cherry Juice at the same exact time. I've since determined the latter to be more positively impactful (via experiments stopping one, starting the other, etc.).


And that's all I've got.

H

 

[GlassCannonLife]

Sorry for the LONG (painstakingly thorough) answer, but this is something I never ended up posting last year. It may well give you some insight.. either way.

Note: based upon blood work, I've seemed to have Chronic EBV for at least the past couple of years

Note #2: hadn't smoked any marijuana in 30 years, before this experimentation


Early 2020

Three Weeks Ago -

Thursday Night: took one hit of medical grade Indica utilizing a homemade foil pipe. 10% CBD / 2% THC

Felt slightly buzzed, nothing too intense. Went to sleep.

Friday: woke up Friday morning with burning aching muscles in arms and legs. Discomfort and a disproportionate amount of tiredness lasted half a day. Took another hit before bed on Friday night.

Saturday: slept 7 hours, no pain or complications upon waking. Extremely tired, suddenly fell asleep an hour later. Woke up, and then fell asleep 2 hours after that. Took a hit from the pipe and fell asleep 20 minutes after that. And then later Saturday evening took two more naps. I almost NEVER take any naps, so this behavior is abnormal. Felt awful.


Last Week

Wednesday: took one hit off of medical grade Sativa joint. 20% CBD / .3% THC

Felt somewhat buzzed, nothing too intense. Went to sleep.

Thursday: woke up Thursday morning with burning aching muscles in arms and legs. Discomfort and a disproportionate amount of tiredness lasted over half the day. Did not take any additional hits off of the joint.

Friday: slept 6 hours, no pain or complications upon waking. Extremely tired, suddenly fell asleep an hour after waking. Woke up, and then fell asleep two hours after that. Took two more long naps. VERY tired.


Last Year (2019)

When I experimented with vaping last year, a three-to-one ratio of CBD to THC (and eventually, a one-to-one ratio) I did not have any of these difficulties or side effects.

Vaping seemed to cause few side effects (besides irritating my lungs slightly), but the actual act of inhaling smoke seems to be very negatively impactful and may be the difference-maker.. or may have nothing to do with anything.

My sleep was vastly improved (hadn't slept through the night in years, plus RARE restful sleep overall), but I also began drinking Tart Cherry Juice at the same exact time. I've since determined the latter to be more positively impactful (via experiments stopping one, starting the other, etc.).


And that's all I've got.

H

Very interesting, thank you

 

[eric_gladiator]

Smoking ends up giving me tachycardia, my heart accelerates, it does not matter if it is thc, cbd, tobacco ... indifferent