Supplementing Amino Acids

ttt

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My aminos are really low on a UAA. Ornithine and arginine are about mid-range, and glutamate is high, but everything else is low. I've been taking Yasko's Amino Assist products, but the amounts of aminos in there are so small that it's not making any difference. I'm also taking BCAA's, but still not enough. I'm thinking about taking another product, such as Montiff All-Basic Plus (http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/all-basic-plus-750mg-500-p-montiff.html), but Yasko makes such a big deal about staying away from Glutamic Acid (since it increased glutamate) and Phenylalanine (since it increased catecholamines, and mine are already high) that I'm nervous about that. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with using amino supplementation, especially in light of the concerns regarding glutamate and/or increased catecholamines?
 

Valentijn

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My aminos are really low on a UAA. Ornithine and arginine are about mid-range, and glutamate is high, but everything else is low. I've been taking Yasko's Amino Assist products, but the amounts of aminos in there are so small that it's not making any difference. I'm also taking BCAA's, but still not enough. I'm thinking about taking another product, such as Montiff All-Basic Plus (http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/all-basic-plus-750mg-500-p-montiff.html), but Yasko makes such a big deal about staying away from Glutamic Acid (since it increased glutamate) and Phenylalanine (since it increased catecholamines, and mine are already high) that I'm nervous about that. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with using amino supplementation, especially in light of the concerns regarding glutamate and/or increased catecholamines?
NAC is good for lowering glutamate. Might get tricky though if you have sulfur problems.
 

ttt

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Thanx, Valentijn. Unfortunately, my sulfur is high, so I have to watch out for that.

Jarod, this is a great chart -- thank you!

So many of these aminos say they require B6 as a co-factor, but Yasko is big on limiting B6. I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on that that differs from hers. I don't even remember why she says to limit B6 -- I just know "B6 is bad."
 

Valentijn

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So many of these aminos say they require B6 as a co-factor, but Yasko is big on limiting B6. I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on that that differs from hers. I don't even remember why she says to limit B6 -- I just know "B6 is bad."
B vitamins are water soluble, so most can be tolerated in high doses. But B6 is toxic in high doses, so it's a very good idea to stick to a normal dose. This might be what she's referring to.
 

ttt

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B6 is toxic in high doses, so it's a very good idea to stick to a normal dose. This might be what she's referring to.
No, she's actually saying to limit it. My Yasko doc said to have no more than 10mg of B6/day, which sounds crazy-low, but that's the kind of "low" she's recommending.
 

undcvr

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I think you are on the rite track for glutamine/glutamic acid supplementation but instead of taking them why don't you try AKG instead. AKG is alpha keto-glutarate, a glutamine molecule with the NH3 ammonia group taken out so in the body it works as an ammonia scavenger, combining with NH3 and then becoming glutamine. Your body shud prefer that.

About B6: from what I understand B6 itself is toxic in high doses but not the P5P form. That form of B6 is unique, it is already converted and ready to work and does not stress the B6 to P5P pathway that can cause toxicity problems.
I have taken about 300-400mg of P5P a day in divided doses during the winter for about 4-5 months continuously, nothing scary to report. * My form of P5P is Enteric Coated. I think it makes a big difference.

My opinion differs from Yasko alot. If your body cannot handle stress well and pathways to metabolism production are either injured or poisoned you cannot but supplement. There is no other way to push these reactions thru and you need these enzymatic reactions to essentially survive. I'm kinda living proof of that I think actually. I've been on mega doses of these and everything else since I have been sick and I am one of the few here to have a life. The only problem with ME is what to treat it with and at what stage of the disease. It's very different for everyone.

Btw is there a reason why your glutamine is high ? The GI tract gets first look at all the glutamine that enters the body and your GI tract itself needs alot of it. Most glutamine is absorbed by the gut b4 it even enters the blood stream so to have high circulating glutamine suggests that your intestinal permeability is very poor and it is letting alot of stuff thru directly into the blood w/o actually processing it. It's a vicious cycle from there. There liver gets over burdened and toxins in the blood accumulate in the CNS and brain.

Another thing I wud recommend is HMB (hydroxy methyl butyrate) along w AKG. It reduces muscle catabolism alot and that takes alot of stress off the liver while it is trying to sort things out w the gut.

Glutamine is a key step in healing from ME but if your ME is too far along it can be counterproductive. Alot of ME has to do with timing.
 

Lotus97

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I came across a post from Rich about supplementing with amino acids. I had a couple questions about it since I supplement with a lot of free form amino acids. I'm actually unsure if Rich is correct so I'd like to verify since some of the stuff I haven't heard of before. It actually sounds like he's repeating what others have told him.
I considered adding this to the protocol, because I have found that some PWCs are depleted in amino acids, but issues were raised by commenters, including the possibilities that this would provoke yeast growth or increased excitotoxicity or ammonia generation.

Since I don’t have much experience with supplementation with free amino acids, I have decided not to add this now. Hopefully PWMEs can consume enough protein in their diets to supply the amino acids they need. Those who are able to do lab testing will be able to determine their amino acids levels and correct them if necessary.
So, could someone tell me do amino acids:
1. Increase yeast growth? (I assume he means Candida Albicans)
2. Increase excitotoxicity? (The only thing I've heard is glutamine could possibly convert into glutamate although I'm unsure how likely it actually is. I guess also aspartic acid being converted into aspartate, but must people don't supplement with that one)
3. Increase ammonia? (My understanding was that many amino acids help remove ammonia such as arginine, ornithine, citrulline, aspartic acid, and carnitine. I've also heard glycine, glutamine, and taurine mentioned for ammonia removal. Also, I thought the ammonia was created from breaking down amino acid chains from protein. Rich even talked about this several times)
 
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ttt, to answer your question, Amy Yasko recommends avoiding B6 if you are CBS+ and/or NOS+/+, as it's an ammonia antagonist. Btw have you come across any answers to your original questions yet (because not everyone posts updates)?

undcvr, is AKG ok for those with sulfur issues? And when you say CFS and glutamine is all about timing, by what measures can you judge how far along your CFS is?

Lotus97, I'd be interested to know the answers to your questions, too. I recently had a UAA via Amy Yasko and am low to severely low (even in glutamine) for every amino acid except tyrosine and tryptophan. I have sulfur problems and systemic candida.
 

ttt

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ttt, to answer your question, Amy Yasko recommends avoiding B6 if you are CBS+ and/or NOS+/+, as it's an ammonia antagonist. Btw have you come across any answers to your original questions yet (because not everyone posts updates)?
Well, since that original post, I have stopped taking Yasko's Amino Assist, as all it was good for was financing Yasko's kids' education. I've started taking a product by Thorne called Amino Complex, which is much better. I've also started high-dose glutamine for my gut, and I haven't seen any negative results from it. Also have increased my B6 to about 80mg/day, because despite what Yasko says, it helps me, and I know a lot of people disagree with her CBS recommendations.
 

chilove

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Look into Moringa. Its an highly nutrative herb that is very well tolerated and has an extremely high protein profile including all of the essential amino acids
 
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Well, since that original post, I have stopped taking Yasko's Amino Assist, as all it was good for was financing Yasko's kids' education. I've started taking a product by Thorne called Amino Complex, which is much better. I've also started high-dose glutamine for my gut, and I haven't seen any negative results from it. Also have increased my B6 to about 80mg/day, because despite what Yasko says, it helps me, and I know a lot of people disagree with her CBS recommendations.
Sorry to have almost hijacked your post but I have a few questions, if you don't mind? I'm thrilled to hear those things are working for you :). My glutamine is in the red low, and despite Yasko's advice I am considering taking it too because my gut is so extensively damaged. Do you take b2/riboflavin with the b6? I'm still new to this whole methylation cycle issue, so I may be incorrect here, but it is my current understanding that you need b2 in order to absorb b6.

Look into Moringa. Its an highly nutrative herb that is very well tolerated and has an extremely high protein profile including all of the essential amino acids
Is there a specific form or brand you would recommend?
 
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Thanx, Valentijn. Unfortunately, my sulfur is high, so I have to watch out for that.

Jarod, this is a great chart -- thank you!

So many of these aminos say they require B6 as a co-factor, but Yasko is big on limiting B6. I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on that that differs from hers. I don't even remember why she says to limit B6 -- I just know "B6 is bad."
Vitamin B-6 makes the CBS Pathway run to fast and dump all your methylation down the drain...
 

ahmo

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oh_noes, my understanding is that we need to avoid common B6, and we need P5P. For awhile I was taking 2 and 3 33mg caps, I now take 1/day. Also, I use glutamine, have never experienced excitotoxicity from it. When I'm detoxxing, I self-test for extra glutamine. These days I take it via footbaths. ahmo