Suffering and spirituality

[alice1]

Thanks for the Joseph Campbell link.He always makes me feel good.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I have actually never heard of Joseph Campbell, so I'm off to google and play Youtube vids.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Lou, takes a big person to aplogise and an even bigger person to do it publicly.

I can't say I even know what you're referring to, as I am extremely tired and have really only caught the basic flavours of the thread.

 

[Wayne]

I was also setting you straight on Joseph Campbell, which you don't quite understand either.

Is it supposed to be loving kindness to be condescending toward others? I too am reporting your hostile posts.

 

[Wayne]

Wow, peeps, what a thread!! Admittedly I have only skimmed through, but can't quite stop from getting the giggles at the visual of Gandhi and Palin having a spiritually philosophical debate, on a fluffy cloud somewhere, in front of goldern lecturns. :victory:

Hey Mary Poppins, thank you for the comic relief! And a big welcome to this forum. :Retro smile:

Wayne

 

[Recovery Soon]

Curiously, I thought I was having a particularly bad day, like a lot of us here, that I went to a thread which previously had gotten my mind off some troubling thing, and stumbled right into a hot subject. I reacted against my better judgement, but it was toward a national figure, not a personal jab against anyone here.

Lou- none of that was all too serious in my opinion. We all do it. I think what created a problem afterwards was the denial that anything else was meant by it- which you have honestly clarifed. Clearly, you weren't intentionally jabbing anyone here. Thanks for saying what you did.

Is it supposed to be loving kindness to be condescending toward others? I too am reporting your hostile posts.

No Wayne. That's not loving kindness- I haven't been practicing it here- just clarifying misinformation.

Thanks for reporting on the reporting.

"Follow Your Bliss."
- Joseph Campbell

 

[Mary Poppins]

Hey Mary Poppins, thank you for the comic relief! And a big welcome to this forum. :Retro smile:

Wayne

Thanks Wayne

 

[Wayne]

... I went to a thread which previously had gotten my mind off some troubling thing, and stumbled right into a hot subject. I reacted against my better judgement, but it was toward a national figure, not a personal jab against anyone here. I can remember what was going on for me when I came to the thread, and I'm pretty sure getting into a political squabble was the last thing I wanted. But, I did, and for that I should apologize. I do.

Hi Lou,

Thanks for you calming note of apology here. I just want to point something out that I think is important. You were not the one who initially injected a political element into this discussion. It was the post you were replying to that did:

What does Gov. Palin have to do with this? I hate the way she and so many are treated.

If you look at the wording, this is referring to the way Sarah Palin has been treated outside this forum in the political arena; not on this forum. I saw no mistreatment of her on this thread. I just think it's important that this be clarified.

Wayne

 

[Ember]

Then on page 54, continuing along the same lines, she talks about directing loving kindness towards those who you really don't like and don't agree with.... Wow...If that is not contriving feelings, then I don't know what is.

Is compassion about "contriving feelings?"

 

[Mary Poppins]

From what I'm reading in these recent posts, I'm wondering whether this thread should be locked? Or restarted with some clear boundaries?

It just seems to be anger inciting defensive anger and I can't imagine it's doing much good for the physical self, nor the spiritual self for that matter.

Healthy debate can be challenging, exciting and has fuelled many a novel insight. There's been some really valid and interesting matters discussed here regarding spirituality.

I do now wonder whether the intellectual piquancy of this thread has become lost in the conversational derailment?

Just some food for thought, peeps.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Is compassion about "contriving feelings?"

Ember--This refers back to the passage that I quoted from the book, about Toni Bernhard sending loving kindness to Sarah Palin.

Here's the entirety of my quote, which, for some reason(?) you cut midway through.

Then on page 54, continuing along the same lines, she talks about directing loving kindness towards those who you really don't like and don't agree with, and gives Sarah Palin as an example. Wow...If that is not contriving feelings, then I don't know what is.

I think we have exhausted the Sarah Palin topic. :In bed: I surely don't have any more to say about it.

 

[Dreambirdie]

From what I'm reading in these recent posts, I'm wondering whether this thread should be locked? Or restarted with some clear boundaries?

It just seems to be anger inciting defensive anger and I can't imagine it's doing much good for the physical self, nor the spiritual self for that matter.

Healthy debate can be challenging, exciting and has fuelled many a novel insight. There's been some really valid and interesting matters discussed here regarding spirituality.

I do now wonder whether the intellectual piquancy of this thread has become lost in the conversational derailment?

Just some food for thought, peeps.

You're absolutely right, Mary Poppins. (your name is adorable, btw)

Hopefully the moderators will take care of the matter in the appropriate way.

 

[Ember]

I don't think we've exhausted the topic of compassion or loving kindness. Perhaps we've demonstrated that it isn't easy to put into practice.

 

[Mary Poppins]

You're absolutely right, Mary Poppins. (your name is adorable, btw)

Several of us have informed the moderators about the devolution of this thread, and the problems we are having with Recovery Soon.

Hopefully they will take care of the matter in the appropriate way.

Your name is quite lovely yourself!

 

[Mary Poppins]

I don't think we've exhausted the topic of compassion or loving kindness. Perhaps we've demonstrated that it isn't easy to put into practice.

That's a fair call, Ember.

 

[Recovery Soon]

Several of us have informed the moderators about the devolution of this thread, and the problems we are having with Recovery Soon.

Hopefully they will take care of the matter in the appropriate way.

Fingers Crossed.

 

[Dainty]

Moderator: Thread locked; on-topic discussion continues at Suffering and spirituality 2

All staff at Phoenix Rising care about the concerns of our members and encourage reports of any problematic interactions. This illness causes those it touches to be even more sensitized to stress than healthy people and there is absolutely no shame in requesting help to deal with a matter.

We do ask that members avoid responding to posts they have reported, as difficult as it may be, since it tends to inflame a situation further.

The remainder of this issue will be handled privately.

Apologies for the delay.

 

[Mark]

I've re-opened the thread just to allow for editing of the offending posts; meanwhile, please continue discussion on the separate thread "Suffering and spirituality 2" and we'll merge the two back together when the thread has been tidied up.

 

[anniekim]

Hi, NeilK.

Yes, that's the way I understand it. It very much raises the stakes for making a decision to accept Jesus as Savior during a person's lifetime. Jesus made a very exclusive claim: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me."

This has raised the question "How could a loving God consign anyone to Hell for eternity?" and the response that God doesn't consign people to Hell. They do it themselves by rejecting the Savior He has provided for them.

I realize that this is a very divisive concept, and that it usually breaks off discussions of this type, and Jesus recognized this. He said, "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." He recognized that this would bring divisions, even within families, and he commented on this. I'm just relating what Jesus taught, not trying to cause discord here.

Best regards,

Rich

This is in no way being disrespectful to Rich, but i just wanted to share that not all Christians believe the bible teaches that unless a person has explicitly said they believe in Jesus Christ in this life, people will go to hell. People from other faiths or none may never have had the opportunity to recognise Jesus in this life, but they may respond within their own beliefs to God and by God's grace and through Jesus' sacrifice God will respond even if they are not explicit believers in Jesus. I believe God's knows what's in the hearts of all man and that is what he cares about.

Also the new testament doesn't explicitly say that there is no chance for redemption after death. There are Christians who believe there is enough to suggest in the new testament that one has a chance to respond to God and the sacrifice of Jesus after death. The new testament says God wishes to reconcile and love all men. I can't help but feel His love is so wide that it will reach us after death too.

it is true that Jesus says He is the way, the truth and one can only reach the Father through him, but it can be interpreted that one does not have to be an explicit believer, more that Jesus's sacrifice allowed in a way I don't understand God's grace to be open to all who respond to him.

Anyway just wanted to share that there are different interpretations out there.