Study links concussion to changes in gut bacteria

[Wishful]

https://newatlas.com/medical/study-concussion-gut-bacteria/

I thought this was interesting. It's hardly a reliable marker yet, but if it proves true, it may validate a link between ME and gut issues. If a concussion can change the gut microbiome, it's reasonable that ME's alterations to the brain's immune system might do it too.

 

[Hip]

That's very interesting, since concussion can sometimes lead to an ME/CFS-like condition called post-concussion syndrome (PCS). PCS typically lasts up to 6 months, but sometimes can last for a year before resolving.

The alterations to the microbiome that can be caused by concussion might well explain PCS.

 

[sometexan84]

https://newatlas.com/medical/study-concussion-gut-bacteria/

I thought this was interesting. It's hardly a reliable marker yet, but if it proves true, it may validate a link between ME and gut issues. If a concussion can change the gut microbiome, it's reasonable that ME's alterations to the brain's immune system might do it too.

Yes, but it could also demonstrate that the reverse is true, where the gut microbiome influences the brain. So it can work in either direction.

The gut brain axis is something probably 25%+ of people here have heard of. But less have heard of the microbiota-gut-brain-axis. I encourage people to check out this publication from 2019, it's been cited almost 600 times, and goes over a lot of very interesting stuff on this.

Save it, share it, bookmark it. Good stuff! This is not just another typical article. Read the parts about Gut Brain Axis, the Microbiota Gut Brain Axis, and way down in the middle where it talks about innate and adaptive immune system involvement. Also, the antibiotics stuff is very relevant and interesting as well!

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00018.2018

 

[mariovitali]

I think we should look at the liver as well : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4810977/

Remember that we have enterohepatic circulation. Entero = gut, hepatic = liver

If i am not mistaken, the microbiome is regulated by bile acids (hence the importance of liver function) although there may exist a bi-directional connection

 

[sometexan84]

I think we should look at the liver as well : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4810977/

Remember that we have enterohepatic circulation. Entero = gut, hepatic = liver

If i am not mistaken, the microbiome is regulated by bile acids (hence the importance of liver function) although there may exist a bi-directional connection

The microbiome is regulated by a lot more than bile acid. I mean, it's not regulated by bile acid much at all. But there are many factors involved. Like for instance, the epithelial cells in the gut lining, they play a large role in maintaining gut homeostasis.

 

[Hip]

I think we should look at the liver as well : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4810977/

Remember that we have enterohepatic circulation. Entero = gut, hepatic = liver

If i am not mistaken, the microbiome is regulated by bile acids (hence the importance of liver function) although there may exist a bi-directional connection

Have you seen Dr Markov's etiological theory of the cause of ME/CFS, Mario?


Dr Markov believes it is dysbiosis in the kidney bacterial microbiome which causes ME/CFS. He says that bacterial toxins produced by kidney bacteria leak into the bloodstream, where they cause systemic poisoning of the whole body. It's this poisoning which is behind ME/CFS, he says.

I wonder how the kidney figures in your machine learning medical software?



Dr Markov claims his autovaccine treatment which targets the kidney dysbiosis is completely curative in 93% of ME/CFS patients, though it takes 2 to 3 years to reach the cured state. Three ME/CFS patients from this forum are currently trying the Markov protocol, and 2 out of 3 patients are already reporting feeling substantially better.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Dr Markov claims his autovaccine treatment which targets the kidney dysbiosis is completely curative in 93% of ME/CFS patients, though it takes 2 to 3 years to reach the cured state. Three ME/CFS patients from this forum are currently trying the Markov protocol, and 2 out of 3 patients are already reporting feeling substantially better.

That sounds great, do go on.

 

[Hip]

That sounds great, do go on.

Myself, @Hipsman and @bensmith are doing the Markov protocol, for around 5, 11 and 3 months respectively. I am not noticing any improvements, but @Hipsman and @bensmith are. You can follow our progress on this thread.

 

[SWAlexander]

Yes, but it could also demonstrate that the reverse is true, where the gut microbiome influences the brain.

Thank you sometexan84 for this link. Yes, this is very important.
Bacteria altogether are very little or almost not included in ME research. One of the most dangerous bacteria is corynebacterium (diphtheriae) which has 50 different variations and some are deathly when not caught one time.

 

[mariovitali]

Have you seen Dr Markov's etiological theory of the cause of ME/CFS, Mario?


I wonder how the kidney figures in your machine learning medical software?

.

Yes, one of the identified targets is CKD (Chronic kidney disease)

https://www.s4me.info/threads/machine-learning-assisted-research-on-me-cfs.5015/page-7#post-207541

 

[Hip]

Yes, one of the identified targets is CKD (Chronic kidney disease)

Interesting. Any hits on the various bacterial toxins? It is bacterial toxins leaking from the kidneys which Dr Markov believes cause all the symptoms of ME/CFS.

 

[mariovitali]

@Hip

It would be great help if you can point me to information that lists the individual toxin names. In this way i will add them to the software i use and it this will be much more efficient for any subsequent analysis.

 

[sometexan84]

Thank you sometexan84 for this link. Yes, this is very important.
Bacteria altogether are very little or almost not included in ME research. One of the most dangerous bacteria is corynebacterium (diphtheriae) which has 50 different variations and some are deathly when not caught one time.

Well, I guess it depends on where you're looking...

Because I've encountered tons of articles and research regarding ME/CFS (directly or indirectly) and gut bacteria, and the microbiome.

The one you mention, Corynebacterium, isn't actually one I've seen mentioned much. It's usually studies talking about like, having low Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus. And other gut dysbiosis related bacteria abnormalities, like abundance of Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Klebsiella, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus, Mycobacterium, Enterococcus, etc.

Which, btw, is reiterated by what some of @Hip has described in the autovaccine threads. They've found some of these as well.

Here's an interesting article, showing an increase in bacteria in blood of ME/CFS post-exercise, bacterial translocation from gut (maintained at 72 hours post-exercise).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0145453

but there really is a lot. The gut microbiome stuff has been blowing up lately, studies on all sorts of diseases... pretty interesting

 

[Hip]

@Hip

It would be great help if you can point me to information that lists the individual toxin names. In this way i will add them to the software i use and it this will be much more efficient for any subsequent analysis.

Sure, I will PM you.

 

[BrightCandle]

Well, I guess it depends on where you're looking...

Because I've encountered tons of articles and research regarding ME/CFS (directly or indirectly) and gut bacteria, and the microbiome.

The one you mention, Corynebacterium, isn't actually one I've seen mentioned much. It's usually studies talking about like, having low Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus. And other gut dysbiosis related bacteria abnormalities, like abundance of Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Klebsiella, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus, Mycobacterium, Enterococcus, etc.

Which, btw, is reiterated by what some of @Hip has described in the autovaccine threads. They've found some of these as well.

Here's an interesting article, showing an increase in bacteria in blood of ME/CFS post-exercise, bacterial translocation from gut (maintained at 72 hours post-exercise).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0145453

but there really is a lot. The gut microbiome stuff has been blowing up lately, studies on all sorts of diseases... pretty interesting

Faecalibacterium Prausnitzii is a really important one as its impossible to get a probiotic containing it and its a big part of the missing butyrate which is quite likely contributing to the cause of the mitrochondira dysfunction. Consistently shows up in a lot of the microbiome problems as a missing good guy.

 

[SWAlexander]

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0145453

but there really is a lot. The gut microbiome stuff has been blowing up lately, studies on all sorts of diseases... pretty interesting[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know this abstract von 2015 and a lot about gut microbiome is mentioned somehow but not in relation to ME directly.
example: "Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis strains could survive within macrophages more than 48 hours. During that time bacteria were released as a result of the process that lead to death of phagocytes."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21077443/

In 2000 I had C-Dif (contaminated well water in CA) but, since my sepsis in 2016 (in NM), ME has almost disabled me. I could be up only for about 2-3 hours a day. I had to sell my 3-acre farm (at a big loss) and my animals because I could no longer walk to the barn or lift anything. Sometimes I just collapsed outside.

Data 4/7/16 Body fluid back lumbar spine superficial GS/CX: very rare growth: bacteremia: Staph epidermidis and Peptostreptococcus, Peptostreptococcus, one colony Staph caprae, Corynebacterium species,” treatment: PICC line IV 8 weeks Vancomycin.
The question remains, was it the bacteria, or was it the Vancomycin that disabled me?

 

[sometexan84]

Faecalibacterium Prausnitzii is a really important one as its impossible to get a probiotic containing it and its a big part of the missing butyrate which is quite likely contributing to the cause of the mitrochondira dysfunction. Consistently shows up in a lot of the microbiome problems as a missing good guy.

I have actually seen that mentioned a few times.