Stress induced epstein barr re-activation [STUDY] 2021

[godlovesatrier]

Have been suffering from this this year, twice so far, second time seemed a lot worse than the first.

https://www.mdpi.com/2218-273X/11/9/1380/htm

But I don't remember seeing this study posted, so thought people might want to discuss.

It describes 4 different types of ebv re-activation. I can only assume tiredness and mild fatigue are stage 1, with chronic igg levels being stage 5, but not sure.

Oxidative Stress/Reactive Oxygen Species and EBV Reactivation
Recent research has examined the role of oxidative stress in EBV reactivation. Chaetocin is an antiproliferative made by Chaetomium fungi that is capable of generating ROS [142]. Real-time RT-PCR revealed that chaetocin treatment upregulated the immediate early genes BZLF1 and BRLF1, the early gene BMRF1, and the late gene BLLF1. This was associated with an increase in the viral copy number. Treatment with the ROS inhibitor N-acetyl-L-cysteine counteracted the effect of chaetocin, indicating that ROS induction is associated with the lytic EBV cycle [143].

This bit really interests me, plenty of other studies have proven OS levels are high, which is why I take R-ALA, NAC, glycine (meant to be anti inflammatory and was recommended by Dr Goldstein) and liposomal glutathione to keep my OS levels down. I guess this must have worked in my case because the terrible swelling I had at the base of my skull disappeared and that was just with NAC and R-ALA

I do think that if certain viruses more aggressively mess up with the immune system or ebv specifically for the purpose of this thread is activated chronically then getting it under control even with antivirals (based on threads I've read on this forum) seems really difficult. Unless of course patient could afford Valcyte, get regular tests, tolerate it and get a doctor to assist.

Anyway the mention of NAC and ROS just really interested me as that was a core piece of Josh's protocol and this study came out after he wrote his herpes study. It's not about who got what right, I am more interested in the fact that a disease vertical keeps appearing, in this case OS (oxidative stress).

Sources:
OS meta analysis 2020 https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...howed,greater oxidative stress after exercise.

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/08/21/free-radicals-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-long-covid-pasc/

 

[Gzephyr]

Hi,

I have reactivated EBV/CFS. Does NAC and R-ALA still work for you? NAC has helped me a lot in the past but not as much now. I think my inflammation has gotten worse and NAC alone doesn't cut it anymore. Do you think ALA has helped you as much as NAC? Which has been stronger? Are they best taken together?

Thanks

 

[godlovesatrier]

I take valtrex for ebv. Nac just lowers ros. Same with r-ala. Dhea and valtrex and possibly low dose hydrocortisone are the only things that have touched ebv. Nothing else really worked or was so tepid that it wasn't moving the needle.

Basically you have to take all 3. I'd also say that life extension reishi helps a lot. It heals adrenaline function, lowers inflammation, heals hypopofusion and treats low NK cells function. Has a huge impact on ebv in my opinion.

So I'd take valtrex, dhea as tolerated, nac, r-ala as tolerated (lowers iron), and up to 4 life extension reishi capsules 3 x a day. Very expensive to keep this up but these are the max doses. Expect to feel unwell for a week or two if it's actually working. Valtrex takes about 3 months to have a good effect if it's going to at all.

Nac does inhibit enteroviral replication tho which may cause ME in some patients.

 

[Gzephyr]

I take valtrex for ebv. Nac just lowers ros. Same with r-ala. Dhea and valtrex and possibly low dose hydrocortisone are the only things that have touched ebv. Nothing else really worked or was so tepid that it wasn't moving the needle.

Basically you have to take all 3. I'd also say that life extension reishi helps a lot. It heals adrenaline function, lowers inflammation, heals hypopofusion and treats low NK cells function. Has a huge impact on ebv in my opinion.

So I'd take valtrex, dhea as tolerated, nac, r-ala as tolerated (lowers iron), and up to 4 life extension reishi capsules 3 x a day. Very expensive to keep this up but these are the max doses. Expect to feel unwell for a week or two if it's actually working. Valtrex takes about 3 months to have a good effect if it's going to at all.

Nac does inhibit enteroviral replication tho which may cause ME in some patients.

I’ve been on 3 grams a day Valtrex for 3 and a half years now. Without it, my EBV flares within 16 hours. I’ve confirmed with PCR results. Tonsils ulcers, mouth ulcers, worse fatigue, burning sinuses and ears, and more. I’ve tried 5 different prescription antivirals now and none of them have suppressed EBV nearly as good as valacyclovir. Valcyte, Tenofovir (both TDF and TAF), and Famvir all did nothing for me. Both Tenofovir medications did make me flare at the beginning so there was some activity ?

No other supplements have suppressed replication. Lysine, monolaurin, olive leaf, oil of oregano, EGCG, and more. All have done nothing.

NAC and Valtrex are the only 2 I’ve responded to significantly. NAC definitely doesn’t decrease replication for me but it does help inflammation. I’ve read research about it stopping LMP1 expression or something like that but it’s probably the antioxidant effects that help me the most. NAC does make me feel like a zombie after a while but the lower doses to combat this don’t do much for my EBV/CFS

Liposomal glutathione makes me feel horrid so I stay away from it. That’s the only other strong antioxidant I’ve tried for an extended period of time

How much did you improve when you added DHEA? Not sure if I could get a low dose steroid prescription like hydrocortisone but I’ll look into it.

I have a bottle of ALA laying around but I never have taken it long enough in combination with NAC to feel anything.

I’ve heard about reishi but never tried. Will definitely consider

Thanks for the info !

 

[godlovesatrier]

Thanks for your reply. This is really interesting to be honest because I was just about to start TDF, although mainly for covid not as much for ebv, but you're saying it didn't work that well? I don't do well on high doses of valtrex sadly or if I did I'd prob do better. But I was going to take TDF instead but if it isnt working for you then I can't see it working or me. You and I seem similair!

NAC helps me a lot with long covid noise sensitivity and I guess waht would eventually be PENE if I didn't take my tablets 3x a day. I used to get PENE after having done a lot of physical and mental exertion, now I tend to get it from a lot of cognitive exertion - assuming I am very well paced physically that is.

DHEA is helpful but I don't take it every day, just for flares. However @heapsreal does I think still take it daily, and he gets a lot of benefit because I believe his DHEA was low. But he takes pregnenlone and testosterone too. My t is always a bit low, but I am not brave enough to take t.

I've bought some more r-ala - hoping it will help a bit more with noise sensivitiy.

Liposomal glutathione - could be the phosphydlcholine possibly, if you feel off/hyperactive. Have you tried l actyle glutathione - jarrow? I take that and it works wonders. But ebv can reactivate a bit when you first start it, don't panic though ebv tends to have abortive replication cycles in some cases, it does this with valtrex as well. So even though you feel worse you're actually just herxing quite literally via the ebv protein replication pathways - but these are abortive and not actually infectious to you or anyone else.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12964120/ this paper explains what I'm on about.

Going to have a nap now as I've eaten something that's made me fall asleep ha! joy.

Best,

 

[Gzephyr]

Thanks for your reply. This is really interesting to be honest because I was just about to start TDF, although mainly for covid not as much for ebv, but you're saying it didn't work that well? I don't do well on high doses of valtrex sadly or if I did I'd prob do better. But I was going to take TDF instead but if it isnt working for you then I can't see it working or me. You and I seem similair!

NAC helps me a lot with long covid noise sensitivity and I guess waht would eventually be PENE if I didn't take my tablets 3x a day. I used to get PENE after having done a lot of physical and mental exertion, now I tend to get it from a lot of cognitive exertion - assuming I am very well paced physically that is.

DHEA is helpful but I don't take it every day, just for flares. However @heapsreal does I think still take it daily, and he gets a lot of benefit because I believe his DHEA was low. But he takes pregnenlone and testosterone too. My t is always a bit low, but I am not brave enough to take t.

I've bought some more r-ala - hoping it will help a bit more with noise sensivitiy.

Liposomal glutathione - could be the phosphydlcholine possibly, if you feel off/hyperactive. Have you tried l actyle glutathione - jarrow? I take that and it works wonders. But ebv can reactivate a bit when you first start it, don't panic though ebv tends to have abortive replication cycles in some cases, it does this with valtrex as well. So even though you feel worse you're actually just herxing quite literally via the ebv protein replication pathways - but these are abortive and not actually infectious to you or anyone else.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12964120/ this paper explains what I'm on about.

Going to have a nap now as I've eaten something that's made me fall asleep ha! joy.

Best,

Yes, we do seem a bit similar! I have a hard time finding people that have had a similar experience to mine.

I was on 300mg TDF for a month before switching to 25mg TAF because of kidney safety. I tried coming off of valacyclovir while on TDF near the end of the month and it did not stop my viral flare from coming on. I know it was only a month but Valacyclovir stops viral replication for me within an hour. I do understand that some people see benefits after taking antivirals for an extended period of time so it very well could still work for you.

TAF doesn’t stop my viral replication even after being on it for 4 months which is incredibly disappointing. Also, if I only take VAL 500mg 3 times a day instead of the usual 1000, I get flare ups. So 1000mg Valacyclovir has been the ONLY supplement or medication I’ve taken that has proven to keep replication down. I will most definitely test positive for EBV PCR DNA if not taking that dose.

NAC directly lowers inflammation for me, particularly in my sinuses and throat which is where I think a lot of my symptoms stem from. I’ve also noticed I don’t get as much noise sensitivity while on it, even though that’s not a main symptom of mine

I believe my DHA and T are normal so it may not work for me. Getting retested next month.

I feel terrible herx/flare that severely drains me even when I take tiny doses of liposomal glutathione. I usually stop taking it after a while because it gets too bad. What benefits have you seen from the acetyl l glutathione? How bad is your herxing exactly? It’s certainly enticing because of my positive response to NAC. Definitely gonna look into it !

Enjoy your nap !

 

[godlovesatrier]

My god if feel the effects of valac within an hour too! Although for my ebv acute reactivation it doesn't respond just to valtrex becuase it's hijacked the mineral and gluco corticoid system. So the only way to supress that is a hit to that system with dhea or hydrocortisone. I prefer dhea as no immune supression.

I'm not sure if magnesium ascorbate is strong enough. But I doubt it would work.

Hip said TAF probably wouldn't work but I can't remember why. But I'm sad that tdf doesn't work. If I do take tdf it will be to deal with a lurking rna virus. But if ebv reactivates on that too then I'm out of options.

Molnu seems to give me a significant improvement after just five days which lasts seemingly forever. Until I get a booster or vaccine of any kind and then I relapse.

Every time I take valtrex after an acute flare my neck and tonsillar swelling gradually goes down over about a month. Took a long time post COVID. Sadly I took citalopram after COVID and that cured most of my long COVID symptoms but aggressively reactivated ebv which made me feel a lot worse.

L actyle glutathione gives me tonsillar swelling and wired tired ebv symptoms within the first few days. But the important point here is that it only lasts 2 to 3 days and then disappears. It's happened 3 times over 3 years so can't be a coincidence.

L actyle glutathione doesn't have any other stuff in it. That's why you may tolerate it better.

 

[cfs since 1998]

No other supplements have suppressed replication. Lysine, monolaurin, olive leaf, oil of oregano, EGCG, and more. All have done nothing.

With herbs the dose needs to be high, I used to take 28 olive leaf capsules per day of the strongest brand on the market (Nature's Way 20%). I took it for about two years and I think it helped. I plateaued and stopped taking it partly due to the cost, and also because I added some immune stimulants to my protocol and this turned out to be a mistake so I just decided to go supplement-free for awhile, though stopping everything suddenly was an even bigger mistake.

I had an *extremely* bad, seemingly irreversible flare from 7 days of valacyclovir 1g/day a few months ago so recently started the olive leaf again working up slowly (started with half a cap on March 1st, up to 8/day so far). Once I'm back to 28 a day and sustain it for awhile, I'll try valacyclovir again starting with a microdose and working up.

Monolaurin is pointless, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Also tried to find research on oil of oregano and EBV and couldn't find any.

 

[Gzephyr]

My god if feel the effects of valac within an hour too! Although for my ebv acute reactivation it doesn't respond just to valtrex becuase it's hijacked the mineral and gluco corticoid system. So the only way to supress that is a hit to that system with dhea or hydrocortisone. I prefer dhea as no immune supression.

I'm not sure if magnesium ascorbate is strong enough. But I doubt it would work.

Hip said TAF probably wouldn't work but I can't remember why. But I'm sad that tdf doesn't work. If I do take tdf it will be to deal with a lurking rna virus. But if ebv reactivates on that too then I'm out of options.

Molnu seems to give me a significant improvement after just five days which lasts seemingly forever. Until I get a booster or vaccine of any kind and then I relapse.

Every time I take valtrex after an acute flare my neck and tonsillar swelling gradually goes down over about a month. Took a long time post COVID. Sadly I took citalopram after COVID and that cured most of my long COVID symptoms but aggressively reactivated ebv which made me feel a lot worse.

L actyle glutathione gives me tonsillar swelling and wired tired ebv symptoms within the first few days. But the important point here is that it only lasts 2 to 3 days and then disappears. It's happened 3 times over 3 years so can't be a coincidence.

L actyle glutathione doesn't have any other stuff in it. That's why you may tolerate it be

I'm interested in seeing if my doc will boost my dose to 4g a day (1G every 6 hours) instead of the current 3g a day I take. Maybe replication begins somewhere in the 8 hours between doses. It has a very short half life so I think there's a chance low level replication is there. What's your Valtrex dose?

I tried taking 1.5 grams in the morning, skipping my middle day dose, and then taking another 1.5 grams at night. I tried this for less than 2 days and I flared up... so just being off it for 12 hours seems to cause EBV symptoms.


I believe TDF has some immune modulating effects against Covid but not TAF so that may be why it isn't recommended. I still think they're both worth a try if you know you have EBV symptoms.


What is molnu?? I would love to look into it!

 

[Gzephyr]

With herbs the dose needs to be high, I used to take 28 olive leaf capsules per day of the strongest brand on the market (Nature's Way 20%). I took it for about two years and I think it helped. I plateaued and stopped taking it partly due to the cost, and also because I added some immune stimulants to my protocol and this turned out to be a mistake so I just decided to go supplement-free for awhile, though stopping everything suddenly was an even bigger mistake.

I had an *extremely* bad, seemingly irreversible flare from 7 days of valacyclovir 1g/day a few months ago so recently started the olive leaf again working up slowly (started with half a cap on March 1st, up to 8/day so far). Once I'm back to 28 a day and sustain it for awhile, I'll try valacyclovir again starting with a microdose and working up.

Monolaurin is pointless, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Also tried to find research on oil of oregano and EBV and couldn't find any.

Hey, how's the olive leaf going? I definitely may try this in the future, only issue is I'd be worried about my liver and kidney health alongside the valacyclovir. I guess I could try it without taking Valacyclovir to see if it suppresses my flares but I may have to jump into a big dose from the get go. Slowly working my way up wouldn't work unless I'm on VAL, sadly.

How much monolaurin were you taking? How long?

A lot of those EBV forums on facebook push oil of oregano. I don't trust a lot of what they have to say in those forums but I thought I'd try a few things

 

[cfs since 1998]

Hey, how's the olive leaf going? I definitely may try this in the future, only issue is I'd be worried about my liver and kidney health alongside the valacyclovir. I guess I could try it without taking Valacyclovir to see if it suppresses my flares but I may have to jump into a big dose from the get go. Slowly working my way up wouldn't work unless I'm on VAL, sadly.

How much monolaurin were you taking? How long?

A lot of those EBV forums on facebook push oil of oregano. I don't trust a lot of what they have to say in those forums but I thought I'd try a few things

With olive leaf I'm only up to 12/day right now as it's hard on the stomach. In the morning, I take 6 caps, wait an hour, take a probiotic, wait another hour, and then I eat breakfast. I take another probiotic before dinner. I take 6 more olive leaf capsules before I go to bed (these are 250mg capsules with 20% oleuropein). Judging from my previous experience as well as how antivirals work in general, I would expect at least 6-12 months before any noticeable positive benefit.

I started Valacyclovir again just over a week ago. I cut a tablet into quarters, crushed one of the quarters and having been taking very tiny pieces of it. After 7 days, I started taking larger pieces. I think I can get up to a quarter tablet (250mg) by next month.

Still researching other herbs and antivirals.