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Strange "anxiety" feelings

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
I am just wondering, is anxiety often a part of PVS/CFS?
I didn't suffer from anxiety, or depression. Emotionally I was pretty stable. But this started on day one; the very day I first felt I was coming down with a flu bug over 10 weeks ago. I never had this before then.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if the anxiety sensation is caused by not feeling well generally, or if not feeling well is a result of the anxiety.
The shakiness felt like extreme physical weakness most of the time, but I am also feeling a deeply negative psychological reaction too.
I feel like I can't cope with usual little stresses of life -even having to drive somewhere I don't know well. It would be SO hard to even get to the hospital if I needed it. I feel worse if I have to do anything much at all, and never used to.

Does everyone get these weird "anxiety" feelings? Is it the body being at its lowest ebb, and sending a message that some things are off-limits when all it wants to do is recover because it is very weak? And the anxiety comes when we try to push through (which many of us have to do to function.) -as a natural response?
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
Yes, especially early on when my crashes were awful. I've never experienced a panic attack, but during bad crashes I can go through serious anxiety during the course of the crash. I also seem to get the physical sensation of anxiety at times, even when I don't mentally feel anxious, I think dysautonomia is at play.

One thing that has helped me deal with this experience is to recognize that it is part of the crash process and just give in to it so that I can rest as much as possible. Worrying about anxiety only exacerbates it. I think it's tied into nervous system over-sensitivity/over-stimulation that can arise, because it's always coupled with light and sound intolerances.
 

mrquasar

Senior Member
Messages
358
Location
Houston, TX USA
It may be worth getting your thyroid checked if you haven't in a while. If it becomes overactive, you can start to feel shaky and anxious. Any changes in your weight or bowel movements? Are you sensitive to heat? Changes in appetite? Of course, all kinds of things can cause anxiety so just throwing it out there as something to cross off the list.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
Thanks Diwi and mrquasar.

Dysautonomia is something to think about Diwi. Thanks. I am always worse in the mornings than I am in the evenings and at night, when I should feel worse as we're all tired at night!

I know the nervous system "changes over" on waking doesn't it? From the parasympathetic to the sympathetic nervous system?
I always woner why I'm often so shaky for the first few hours of the day.

I even experimented with staying up all night. I felt WAY better! Horribly tired (which is not a sensible thing to do) but stable more than I would have been if I'd had an 8 hour sleep!

I have had my thyroid checked and there's no abnormality. When this all started that was one of the first things made me wonder....
Yes I have appetite changes and have all the way through. First it was nausea, alternating with an unnatural ravenous hunger. Then sometimes it was that lack of "hungry-growls" I used to get in my belly, then it was just not feeling like eating, but I did anyway and felt detached from the food somehow. (so unlike me.)
 
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Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
I've tried your experiment of staying up all night when I was tired but wired. I don't know why, but yes, sleep seems to hit the "reset" button for feeling like crap again...and only start to feel better late in the day. Everyday is Groundhog Day.
 

alkt

Senior Member
Messages
339
Location
uk
who would not become anxious when everything they previously took for granted regarding their physical capabilities is now in a state of flux . it is not easy or pleasant trying to decipher what you can or cannot do at any particular time . increasing your understanding of symptoms is a potential way of allaying fears of what may come next . fortunately now there is easy access to lots of genuine information and compassionate people willing to share their experience of this and many other illnesses .
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
I am just wondering, is anxiety often a part of PVS/CFS?
I didn't suffer from anxiety, or depression. Emotionally I was pretty stable. But this started on day one; the very day I first felt I was coming down with a flu bug over 10 weeks ago. I never had this before then.

Hi Wolfcub - I think anxiety is VERY often a part of CFS. I am quite certain now that my anxiety is largely caused by my CFS.

I have improved my CFS in the last year and with that came much less anxiety and it stopped the anxiety attacks I use to get for years!

My view is that I have some anxiety about my CFS limitations but the majority of it comes from the biochemical changes that CFS causes.

Jim
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
Yes Jim....the "biochemical changes". That's what it feels like is the trigger for the anxiety sensations. It didn't actually feel like an anxious mood, more like a response to something being seriously wrong physically inside somehow.
But it has started to make me feel a bit sad too, so it's percolating to my general mood now, which is pretty horrible as I am by nature a really strong funny optimistic person with so much to have gratitude for.
I feel I should fight this thing trying to change me emotionally.
But sometimes I find myself just crying. The only reason I ever cried was when loved ones died. Now I cry every day.
Weirdly, crying often relieves a nasty queasy feeling when that creeps up. So it's not all bad -hey?
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
biochemical changes

Your symptoms (anxiety, uncharacteristic crying, queasy feeling) sound like they may be caused by excess glutamate in the brain. MethylB12 and LDN (low-dose Naltrexone) helped to stabilize my odd ME/CFS induced mood swings. MethylB12 helps to regulate the amount of glutamate in the brain.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
@PatJ Thank you. My next trick is to try Methyl B12. I am still bursting into tears! I have to laugh at myself. I burst into tears over music (just heard Einaudi and that got me going.) And what other people are going through....and missing loved ones who have passed, and poor street dogs....the works.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,800
Does everyone get these weird "anxiety" feelings?

I think generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is biochemically caused, rather than caused by life events or circumstances. Of course once you have anxiety, the worry or mental tension caused by adverse life events becomes even worse; but I think the underlining issue is in the brain. I found some effective treatments for anxiety, detailed in this thread.

ME/CFS patients can also experience emotional sensitivity, where for example even slight social disharmony becomes unpleasant. This is different to GAD.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
I am just wondering, is anxiety often a part of PVS/CFS?

I feel like I can't cope with usual little stresses of life -even having to drive somewhere I don't know well.

Yes, unfortunately anxiety can come along with the territory.

The symptom you described is a symptom of adrenal issues - sounds like adrenal fatigue.

The crying spells or emotional issues in general can also be due to hypothyroidism.
 
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caledonia

Senior Member
Your symptoms (anxiety, uncharacteristic crying, queasy feeling) sound like they may be caused by excess glutamate in the brain. MethylB12 and LDN (low-dose Naltrexone) helped to stabilize my odd ME/CFS induced mood swings. MethylB12 helps to regulate the amount of glutamate in the brain.

For me, glutamate is straight up anxiety. I've had success at different times with raising GABA and lowering glutamate.

You can raise GABA with Pharma GABA or theanine. You can lower glutamate by avoiding glutamate in foods. About 50% of processed foods have MSG in it, hidden under a dizzying variety of names, so I make all my food from scratch and avoid processed food. There are also some foods high in natural glutamates like tomatoes, mushrooms, and Parmesan cheese. There is one more I can never remember.

My GABA/glutamate balance improved some time after getting my last mercury filling out, as did my thyroid and adrenals.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
Thank you @caledonia .

I have had thyroid checked and doctor said everything is fine....I am also not a hypo/hyper thyroid profile really at all. But adrenal fatigue....well I need to research that because I have no idea about it.

This lot didn't creep up on me. It all hit me -whammy! -at 1.30pm on the 27th March! That must sound so weird but I literally can time it almost to the minute....that "going down with something-like-flu" feeling, for sure.
And basically has improved but never gone away.
It really felt like the weirdest horriblest flu I'd ever had and wouldn't wish on anyone. Can adrenal fatigue feel like flu?
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Thank you @caledonia .

I have had thyroid checked and doctor said everything is fine....I am also not a hypo/hyper thyroid profile really at all. But adrenal fatigue....well I need to research that because I have no idea about it.

This lot didn't creep up on me. It all hit me -whammy! -at 1.30pm on the 27th March! That must sound so weird but I literally can time it almost to the minute....that "going down with something-like-flu" feeling, for sure.
And basically has improved but never gone away.
It really felt like the weirdest horriblest flu I'd ever had and wouldn't wish on anyone. Can adrenal fatigue feel like flu?

Hmmm, I haven't really associated adrenal fatigue with flu like symptoms, but I googled, and some other sources are.
I guess everyone has a little bit different definition of flu like symptoms.

This page at Stop The Thyroid Madness is a good intro to adrenal fatigue.
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

There are some self tests which are free, or very cheap, and if those are looking positive, you can do a 24 hour cortisol test to confirm. The Dr. Rind temperature graph can help differentiate if you have adrenal issues, thyroid issues, both or none.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
Thank you, caledonia. Yes tonight I was looking for some home testing kits for adrenal function. The urine tests particularly. What stopped me buying so far was I read the instructions and the way they were written was not perfectly clear to me. But I'll check into it a bit more until I'm clear about how to use the test kit.

I don't tick a lot of boxes for adrenal insufficiency. But definitely some for sure, (6 out of 17) so that might be worth checking.

And thank you for mentioning the Dr Rind temperature graph because I shall do that.
I always -all my life -had a slightly lower temperature than normal, but can still work with the graph, taking that into account.
 
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Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
I drew out the template for the Dr Rind graph and am recording temperature 3X per day.
So far I've noticed a distinct drop every night after midnight. That happens every night. It's pretty stable but always under 98.6 in the day, then whoosh....drops down after midnight.
I get hot flush feelings too, and take my temp. when they're happening and it has never gone up even though I feel so hot for a few minutes (well past menopause by the way!)

I was told once that people who are RH negative always have a lower body temperature even if they feel well. I don't know how true that is....or not. But I am AB rh negative.

And I always had a lower-than-everybody-else's temperature but was always remarkably fit and well all my life. Very strong, healthy, and resilient, So it's all a bit odd.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
Passion flower extract and Ashwaganda can help getting things calmed down on bad days.

Thanks for that tip @Hazeleyes99 . I might try Passionflower and Ashwaganda. I have once taken Passionflower (good) Ashwaganda I have never tried. It's worth a shot.

I have found Astragalus root tea has helped me such a lot. I can feel the benefits in a short time after drinking it. It is not an "anti-anxiety" herb, more an "immune support" herb but it is the one thing that has helped me most so far.