Journeyman
Senior Member
- Messages
- 193
Hi everyone,
A year ago I did my first Organic Acids Test (OAT) via the highly recommended Great Plains Labs (GPL) site. I found it extremely useful as the included report showed a recurring theme of bacterial overgrowth, alongside higher than normal levels of commensal bacteria AND a high HVA/VMA ratio (excessive Dopamine (DA) to Serotonin (5HT) ratio). Original post with results here
In analysing the OAT to make positive changes to my health, I learnt that many of the bacteria I was found to be high in from the OAT all tended to have a suppressing effect on the DBH enzyme that is responsible for converting Dopamine to Norepinephrine, I quickly found myself implementing a SIBO diet. Low and behold I experienced significant improvements in energy/concentration and realised that my gut was constantly distended from what must have been the bacterial overgrowth. I also went onto supplementing Relora to reduce what appeared to be excessive DA levels (though someone mentioned theres actually a DA deficiency in the brain when someone exhibits the elevated HVA/VMA ratio??))
I'm still not where I need to be in terms of health and energy (frequent upper respiratory infections, ongoing anxiety and PEM) so I'm interested in taking the next most useful step which I'm informed would be stool analysis. Particularly as I'm also interested to know what the state of my gut microbiome is now that I've now done 3 SIBO herbal antibiotic regimes. Particularly as I spend a lot of money on probiotics alongside the usual methylation supplements.
I've found a couple of highly relevant threads here in these forums such as here and a great link (at least it appears so) here and its all quite depressing. Firstly it appears that half of the tests are useless (culture based testing) because they only show a relatively small proportion of the gut bacteria that exist in the gut, and their proportions might be misrepresentative because of the method of transportation (stool is stored in some kind of nutrient broth to keep the bugs alive for analysis which is unlikely to resemble your unique 'in vivo' gut environment)
Whilst the other more modern tests done using PCR (DNA based analysis??) don't appear comprehensive enough to allow one to see an overall pattern of bacteria or parasitology that could be actionable in terms of taking certain pro or prebiotics? Or are they? Diagnostic Solutions seem to have quite a bit of useful information but @alicec I think you found from tests done in late 2014 they didn't report half of the specimens that they were able to find in a simultaneously submitted and supposedly inferior culture based analysis of the same stool sample through a different company?
Have things perhaps improved since late 2014 with the Diagnostic Solutions testing? If so what might the improvements be?
Also, what of uBIOME who seem to really great what with its emphasis on citizen scientists and providing information that might actually allow for useful actionable report information?? (Seems I'm limited to their 'explorer' test given my location outside USA)
Also what about Dr MeLeir... I see him mentioned as some kind of guru for gut testing... Can anybody comment on the usefulness of the above options or perhaps new ones that I havent mentioned? Is he horrendously expensive?
One key question I have is whether any stool sample is going to give useful results taking into account my location here in Sydney, Australia meaning most samples will undergo 48 hours transit times overseas before analysis even begins.... Will PCR based tests be more reliable given the transit time?
If not, then do I need to find an Australian based stool analysis provider who can offer something as useful as Diagnostic Solutions PCR and if so do I need the test requested through a Dr and if so how can I do it without costing myself an arm and a leg.
Please, if you have any information or better still, information and experience from your own gut based investigations I'd love to get your input..
Regards
Journeyman
A year ago I did my first Organic Acids Test (OAT) via the highly recommended Great Plains Labs (GPL) site. I found it extremely useful as the included report showed a recurring theme of bacterial overgrowth, alongside higher than normal levels of commensal bacteria AND a high HVA/VMA ratio (excessive Dopamine (DA) to Serotonin (5HT) ratio). Original post with results here
In analysing the OAT to make positive changes to my health, I learnt that many of the bacteria I was found to be high in from the OAT all tended to have a suppressing effect on the DBH enzyme that is responsible for converting Dopamine to Norepinephrine, I quickly found myself implementing a SIBO diet. Low and behold I experienced significant improvements in energy/concentration and realised that my gut was constantly distended from what must have been the bacterial overgrowth. I also went onto supplementing Relora to reduce what appeared to be excessive DA levels (though someone mentioned theres actually a DA deficiency in the brain when someone exhibits the elevated HVA/VMA ratio??))
I'm still not where I need to be in terms of health and energy (frequent upper respiratory infections, ongoing anxiety and PEM) so I'm interested in taking the next most useful step which I'm informed would be stool analysis. Particularly as I'm also interested to know what the state of my gut microbiome is now that I've now done 3 SIBO herbal antibiotic regimes. Particularly as I spend a lot of money on probiotics alongside the usual methylation supplements.
I've found a couple of highly relevant threads here in these forums such as here and a great link (at least it appears so) here and its all quite depressing. Firstly it appears that half of the tests are useless (culture based testing) because they only show a relatively small proportion of the gut bacteria that exist in the gut, and their proportions might be misrepresentative because of the method of transportation (stool is stored in some kind of nutrient broth to keep the bugs alive for analysis which is unlikely to resemble your unique 'in vivo' gut environment)
Whilst the other more modern tests done using PCR (DNA based analysis??) don't appear comprehensive enough to allow one to see an overall pattern of bacteria or parasitology that could be actionable in terms of taking certain pro or prebiotics? Or are they? Diagnostic Solutions seem to have quite a bit of useful information but @alicec I think you found from tests done in late 2014 they didn't report half of the specimens that they were able to find in a simultaneously submitted and supposedly inferior culture based analysis of the same stool sample through a different company?
Have things perhaps improved since late 2014 with the Diagnostic Solutions testing? If so what might the improvements be?
Also, what of uBIOME who seem to really great what with its emphasis on citizen scientists and providing information that might actually allow for useful actionable report information?? (Seems I'm limited to their 'explorer' test given my location outside USA)
Also what about Dr MeLeir... I see him mentioned as some kind of guru for gut testing... Can anybody comment on the usefulness of the above options or perhaps new ones that I havent mentioned? Is he horrendously expensive?
One key question I have is whether any stool sample is going to give useful results taking into account my location here in Sydney, Australia meaning most samples will undergo 48 hours transit times overseas before analysis even begins.... Will PCR based tests be more reliable given the transit time?
If not, then do I need to find an Australian based stool analysis provider who can offer something as useful as Diagnostic Solutions PCR and if so do I need the test requested through a Dr and if so how can I do it without costing myself an arm and a leg.
Please, if you have any information or better still, information and experience from your own gut based investigations I'd love to get your input..
Regards
Journeyman