Stool Analysis - Recommendations?

Journeyman

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I think I would ask Great Plains what is the longest time a sample is reliable, and if you can freeze it and/or send it with an ice pack to make it last longer.
Yeh thats what I did last time though I'm not sure whether it made it before the weekend...
 

Journeyman

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This looks great Jason, however on clicking the 'order test' it seems to have a tick marked against diagnostic solutions where other options are listed like Red Labs and Great Plains. So it looks to me like this is simply a UK company doing referrals for what is effectively the Diagnostic Solutions test. Anyone else confirm?

It is good to see some research into UK options....

Regards

Journeyman
 

Journeyman

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Microba is an Australian company based in Brisbane which is intending to offer a test covering bacteria, eukaryotes and viruses. They don't say exactly when they will start, nor what the cost will be. You can sign up for updates.
.
I took a more thorough look at their site as it looked more like a pipe dream the last time it was mentioned in this forum. It looks on the face of it, to be a great value option for ppl like us living in Australia and it seems they will provide a report with dietary advice... though I suspect this will be extremely simple.
@alicec have you made any enquiries with Microba as to how extensive their analytes are so we can have some idea of how it compares to uBiome's entirely comprehensive Explorer Plus?
Don't you have concerns about paying $335 to a company which hasn't even got its lab established and could be a fly by night affair for all we know?? (How reliable are they or is it just some start up)
Admittedly their lab forecast to be established at the PA hospital does bode well... but its not yet established as far as their website indicates. (Have you received anything from them or found information about them from other sources that give you confidence in their offering?)

Regards
Journeyman
 

alicec

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have you made any enquiries with Microba as to how extensive their analytes are so we can have some idea of how it compares to uBiome's entirely comprehensive Explorer Plus?
It is just as comprehensive if not more so. They are using complete metagenomic sequencing, uBiome is using a combination of metagenomic and targeted sequencing. Read this as meaning they have introduced some clever shortcuts in the full genomic sequencing process. Without knowing the details of the uBiome patented techniques it is not possible at this stage to know what if any difference this will make, but suffice it to say that the Microba test is a straight out metagenomic sequencing test.

Don't you have concerns about paying $335 to a company which hasn't even got its lab established and could be a fly by night affair for all we know??
It did take them quite some time to get established but they seem to be up and running now - taking orders and sending out kits in June.

Why do you say "fly by night"? Are we talking about the same company?

The founders are two UQ Professors (director and deputy director of the Australian Centre for Ecogenomics at UQ) and the director is Prof Ian Frazer, the inventor of the HPV vaccine and Director of the Translational Research Institute at UQ.

Nothing fly by night about any of them. I don't know what your problem is.
 
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So it looks to me like this is simply a UK company doing referrals for what is effectively the Diagnostic Solutions test. Anyone else confirm?
correct, they are simply a distrubitor/intermediary for our region for some of the actual labs located overseas.
Some others that come to mind in the UK are Regenerus and Biolab. It is best to ask the actual lab if they have a local distrubtor in your country otherwise do it directly with the lab itself.

Most of the times the results are only sent to a practioner/can only be ordered by a practioner. if you have problem ordering yourself i know of a clincian who has accounts with many labs - both local and international
 

jason30

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This looks great Jason, however on clicking the 'order test' it seems to have a tick marked against diagnostic solutions where other options are listed like Red Labs and Great Plains. So it looks to me like this is simply a UK company doing referrals for what is effectively the Diagnostic Solutions test. Anyone else confirm?

It is good to see some research into UK options....

Regards

Journeyman
hmmm good catch!
I have decided to go for the Explorer Plus. I can't wait till it's available!
 

Journeyman

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Hi All,

Here we are almost 3 months since my original post and at an important point where the Explorer Plus kits promised as 'shipping in spring of 2018) should be underway. I'd be interested to hear of anyones experiences re: the Explorer Plus kit ordering. Have they started shipping yet as they indicated they would? If not have they given you any idea as to how long it might take to ship?

I took a look at Viome (thanks
@vaer but unfortunately its not an option unless you're in the UK or USA.

I also got some useful replies from Dr Meirleir but their kit is if anything more expensive than uBiome. Mind you the fact I got a reply is a better sign for customer service compared to my experience with uBiome who still havent responded since my e-mail follow up as long ago as early February.

Regards

Journeyman
 

Journeyman

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Journeyman did you finally take the test? Which one did you choose?
Not yet but I'm glad someone reminded me. Really I'm just waiting to hear any feedback from anyone whose used Microba here in Australia such as @alicec . They do a thorough and well priced PCR based stool analysis on the face of it. Hopefully someone whose received their report can comment on it, and if they're educated in these things all the better!
 

Journeyman

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They don't use PCR, they use complete metagenomic sequencing.

I've sent my sample off. They said results will take about 4 weeks so a couple of weeks to wait. I'll report back when I get them.
Still nothing!? j/k. I look forward to hearing how you found it. Particularly in terms of the range and quantities of species reported and how it compares to uBiome Explorer..
 

Learner1

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Did you all learn anything? I have not been impressed with uBiome, having done 3 tests, and my old doctor liked GI Map.

However, I was at a practitioner event last night and they spike favorably about Viome.

This is about the science of what they are doing. They claim to only tell you what's live, not fragmented dead stuff, and they analyze pathways as uBiome seems to (but better??) and give individualized recommendations for improvement.

https://www.viome.com/our-science

Thoughts? Anything else better out there?
 

tyson oberle

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Did you all learn anything? I have not been impressed with uBiome, having done 3 tests, and my old doctor liked GI Map.

However, I was at a practitioner event last night and they spike favorably about Viome.

This is about the science of what they are doing. They claim to only tell you what's live, not fragmented dead stuff, and they analyze pathways as uBiome seems to (but better??) and give individualized recommendations for improvement.

https://www.viome.com/our-science

Thoughts? Anything else better out there?
It sounds very interesting. But if it were valuable, why haven't we heard any of the main ME/CFS researchers (especially the ones who believe that the gut is the main problem) recommend this?
 

bertiedog

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I think I have learned something important for me in running a CDSA, firstly in 2012, followed by the Genova GI Effects in late 2015. Both showed Citrobacter Freundi as a potential pathogen in an amount described as +4. I know @alicec disagrees that we learn much from these tests but I have learned that these tests quantify what could potentially be causing issues at the time of the test. If one runs these tests over a period of time then one can see a pattern emerge.

In January this year I ran a UBIOME explorer test and there it is again Citrobacter and they say it is found in only 5% of samples.

I have now looked into what a nasty bacteria this can be and is found in immunocompromised people. It's a gram negative enterobacteria resistant to most standard antibiotics. The symptoms it produces are for the most part the ones I suffer with especially during a flare after a period of extra stress - stuff like infections, trauma, excess emotional situations etc. It can cause a wide range of infections in humans, with the urinary tract being the most common one followed by respiratory tract, wounds, bone etc. I have been troubled for several years now with recurrent UTIs and when my GP gets it tested nothing shows up and yet I am suffering with symptoms that can be so severe I cannot sleep because of the pain.

It also can be found in the GI tract and that is another area which causes me trouble on a daily basis.

If I hadn't run these tests I wouldn't have a clue that I have this nasty bacteria in my body as all the tests the NHS runs come back normal (apart from my thyroid).

One point from having a bacteria like Citrobacter is that it will steal the vitamins and minerals that one is eating so no matter how good the diet is one will end up deficient in so many areas which certainly isn't going to help an ME/CFS person because our ATP is disrupted.

Genova always try to update the quality of their tests and all the gut ones now use PCR techniques but the advantage over UBIOME is that they give a quantitive analysis which doesn't happen with the other one.
Genova also indicate what antibiotics the bacteria is susceptible to as well as natural agents.

This week I have started Uva Ursi together with Oregano oil and have had a big improvement in my health in general following a few months of feeling dreadful with several infections following a fall which sprained both my ankles and caused huge pain. Citrobacter is susceptible to these herbs as well as plant tannins and berberine. Unfortunately I cannot take berberine because it interacts with my medications for thyroid and adrenals.

There is some advice from a medical herbalist that says one needs to stay on the Uva Ursi at a low dose for 6 months together with herbs like corn silk and marshmallow in order to heal the damage that is done to the lining of the urinary tract from these bad UTIs.

I am fortunate in that I can run the Genova tests at Practitioner prices because I have a diploma in nutrition and if anyone else from the UK wanted to run one for themselves I am happy to do this at Practitioner prices, just send me a PM.

Pam
 

Learner1

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It sounds very interesting. But if it were valuable, why haven't we heard any of the main ME/CFS researchers (especially the ones who believe that the gut is the main problem) recommend this?
I haven't heard the researchers recommend that we do much of anything except wait. They've found alterations in the microbiome, but haven't said much about what any of us can do to normalize it, because no one knows...

And, why would they be using consumer tests when they have their own equipment to do their own analysis?
 

tyson oberle

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Location
tampa, florida
Did you all learn anything? I have not been impressed with uBiome, having done 3 tests, and my old doctor liked GI Map.

However, I was at a practitioner event last night and they spike favorably about Viome.

This is about the science of what they are doing. They claim to only tell you what's live, not fragmented dead stuff, and they analyze pathways as uBiome seems to (but better??) and give individualized recommendations for improvement.

https://www.viome.com/our-science

Thoughts? Anything else better out there?
I would like to order this test but I am not sure if I should because about 2 weeks ago I started to do small infusions of FMT (fecal transplants) about 3 times a week. I emailed Viome and asked them if I can still get tested or if I need to stop FMT for a time period before doing this test.
 
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I think I have learned something important for me in running a CDSA, firstly in 2012, followed by the Genova GI Effects in late 2015. Both showed Citrobacter Freundi as a potential pathogen in an amount described as +4. I know @alicec disagrees that we learn much from these tests but I have learned that these tests quantify what could potentially be causing issues at the time of the test. If one runs these tests over a period of time then one can see a pattern emerge.

In January this year I ran a UBIOME explorer test and there it is again Citrobacter and they say it is found in only 5% of samples.

I have now looked into what a nasty bacteria this can be and is found in immunocompromised people. It's a gram negative enterobacteria resistant to most standard antibiotics. The symptoms it produces are for the most part the ones I suffer with especially during a flare after a period of extra stress - stuff like infections, trauma, excess emotional situations etc. It can cause a wide range of infections in humans, with the urinary tract being the most common one followed by respiratory tract, wounds, bone etc. I have been troubled for several years now with recurrent UTIs and when my GP gets it tested nothing shows up and yet I am suffering with symptoms that can be so severe I cannot sleep because of the pain.

It also can be found in the GI tract and that is another area which causes me trouble on a daily basis.

If I hadn't run these tests I wouldn't have a clue that I have this nasty bacteria in my body as all the tests the NHS runs come back normal (apart from my thyroid).

One point from having a bacteria like Citrobacter is that it will steal the vitamins and minerals that one is eating so no matter how good the diet is one will end up deficient in so many areas which certainly isn't going to help an ME/CFS person because our ATP is disrupted.

Genova always try to update the quality of their tests and all the gut ones now use PCR techniques but the advantage over UBIOME is that they give a quantitive analysis which doesn't happen with the other one.
Genova also indicate what antibiotics the bacteria is susceptible to as well as natural agents.

This week I have started Uva Ursi together with Oregano oil and have had a big improvement in my health in general following a few months of feeling dreadful with several infections following a fall which sprained both my ankles and caused huge pain. Citrobacter is susceptible to these herbs as well as plant tannins and berberine. Unfortunately I cannot take berberine because it interacts with my medications for thyroid and adrenals.

There is some advice from a medical herbalist that says one needs to stay on the Uva Ursi at a low dose for 6 months together with herbs like corn silk and marshmallow in order to heal the damage that is done to the lining of the urinary tract from these bad UTIs.

I am fortunate in that I can run the Genova tests at Practitioner prices because I have a diploma in nutrition and if anyone else from the UK wanted to run one for themselves I am happy to do this at Practitioner prices, just send me a PM.

Pam
Citrobacter has a plasmid that confer resistance to antibiotics as well as natural treatments. Eventually, it will be resistant to all these treatments and that is where the real problem lies. There should be another bacteria which is antagonistic to it and helps keep it in check, but I have not found any research on that. There must be something off with the microflora or immune system that allows the overgrowth, but it seems research into this is inadequate. Hope you have an easier time with it.