Stomach load and poor blood flow

[river]

After I have eaten I feel all my blood going to the stomach and I "feel" like less blood is in my extremities and brain. This adds to the general post meal fogginess and thought disturbance I always have.

I also have POTS and NMH

I wonder if you have the same problem and if you've found dietary solutions to relieve it.
I know everyone says for example to eat whole grains or lot of vegetables, but they actually seems to worsen this problem by creating too much volume in my small stomach, so maybe I should actually eat less veggies and more concentrated calories.

What do you think?

 

[Athene]

I feel much worse after a big meal and my solution is to graze all day like a sheep.. endless snacking and tiny meals.

 

[Machair]

I can't eat big meals at all. I feel utterly dreadful if I do. I stick to small portions and not too much roughage and this keeps it stable. I know it is healthy to eat lots of fibre but it causes me a lot of trouble.

 

[richvank]

After I have eaten I feel all my blood going to the stomach and I "feel" like less blood is in my extremities and brain. This adds to the general post meal fogginess and thought disturbance I always have.

I also have POTS and NMH

I wonder if you have the same problem and if you've found dietary solutions to relieve it.
I know everyone says for example to eat whole grains or lot of vegetables, but they actually seems to worsen this problem by creating too much volume in my small stomach, so maybe I should actually eat less veggies and more concentrated calories.

What do you think?

Hi, river.

It is very common in CFS to have lower than normal total blood volume. It's true that the circulation is diverted to the gut after eating, and less blood flow is then available for the brain and extremities. This is similar to the effect of a warm shower, in which blood flow is diverted to the skin in an effort to dissipate heat to control the body's core temperature. This can cause fainting in some PWCs. POTS and NMH are very consistent with low total blood volume.

I believe that the low total blood volume results from diabetes insipidus (not the same as diabetes mellitus, involving blood sugar). Diabetes insipidus results from too low a secretion of antidiuretic hormone by the hypothalamus/pituitary, and this causes the kidneys to dump too much water from the blood into the urine. It produces thirst, and the person drinks a lot of fluids, but never "catches up" with the continuing water excretion, so the total blood volume stays below normal.

In my hypothesis, the low secretion of antidiuretic hormone is caused by glutathione depletion in the hypothalamus/pituitary. To raise glutathione back up to normal, we have found that it is necessary to lift a partial
block in the methylation cycle, which is upstream of glutathione synthesis in the sulfur metabolism. I have suggested a protocol for doing this, which has been helpful to about two-thirds of those who have tried it.
Details can be found at www.cfsresearch.org by clicking on CFS/M.E. and then on my name. As noted there, my position is that a person must be under the care of a physician while doing this treatment, because a
small number of people have reported having some serious adverse effects while on this treatment. This is discussed in an article dated July 18, 2007, which can also be found on this website.

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[caledonia]

It's normal for the blood to go to your stomach to get your food digested, but since we have low blood volume already, plus some of us have NMH and POTS, this can cause a problem.

Eating smaller meals more often sounds like a good solution.

Somebody somewhere said to only eat until you're 4/5ths full. I have been doing that for a long time (even before I was sick) and that seems like a good rule for me.

And whatever Rich says (we must have been posting at the same time).

 

[August59]

Shower Tip / Diabetes Insipidus fits me!!

Hi, river.

It is very common in CFS to have lower than normal total blood volume. It's true that the circulation is diverted to the gut after eating, and less blood flow is then available for the brain and extremities. This is similar to the effect of a warm shower, in which blood flow is diverted to the skin in an effort to dissipate heat to control the body's core temperature. This can cause fainting in some PWCs. POTS and NMH are very consistent with low total blood volume.

I believe that the low total blood volume results from diabetes insipidus (not the same as diabetes mellitus, involving blood sugar). Diabetes insipidus results from too low a secretion of antidiuretic hormone by the hypothalamus/pituitary, and this causes the kidneys to dump too much water from the blood into the urine. It produces thirst, and the person drinks a lot of fluids, but never "catches up" with the continuing water excretion, so the total blood volume stays below normal.

In my hypothesis, the low secretion of antidiuretic hormone is caused by glutathione depletion in the hypothalamus/pituitary. To raise glutathione back up to normal, we have found that it is necessary to lift a partial
block in the methylation cycle, which is upstream of glutathione synthesis in the sulfur metabolism. I have suggested a protocol for doing this, which has been helpful to about two-thirds of those who have tried it.
Details can be found at www.cfsresearch.org by clicking on CFS/M.E. and then on my name. As noted there, my position is that a person must be under the care of a physician while doing this treatment, because a
small number of people have reported having some serious adverse effects while on this treatment. This is discussed in an article dated July 18, 2007, which can also be found on this website.

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Rich

Thanks Rich - The diabetes insipidus describes me to a tee. I'm sure some of the thirst is related to my meds, but I feel sure more of it is due to this because it just started about a year ago and have been taking meds a lot longer than that. My biggest concern is that my frequency of getting rid of the urine has slowed down to 2 - 3 times a day, but urinalysis is normal.

The POTS in the shower can be helped, for some, if at the end of the shower they will slowly turn the water back towards cold a little at a time. Keep working it back till it the temp is just to the point where it isn't uncomfortable. This also helps with periods of very oily scalp and face, as in closing up the sebum ducts for awhile!!

Thanks!!

 

[August59]

Forgot to ask this - Is there any other way (other than metylation block) to boost blood volume?

 

[Emootje]

Forgot to ask this - Is there any other way (other than metylation block) to boost blood volume?

I think you can boost your blood volume by blocking the endothelin/anp pathway. This can be realized by reducing inflammation or by an endothelin inhibitor (bosentan, sitaxentan, ambrisentan, atrasentan)

In rats, decrease in plasma volume by ANP is abolished by splenectomy

"Exogenously administered ANF causes an increase in haematocrit anda decrease in plasma volume.....We have shown that these responses are abolished by splenectomy"
http://jp.physoc.org/content/533/1/273.full.pdf

but maybe splenectomy is a bit drastic...

 

[river]

I can't eat big meals at all. I feel utterly dreadful if I do. I stick to small portions and not too much roughage and this keeps it stable. I know it is healthy to eat lots of fibre but it causes me a lot of trouble.

So I should eat less veggies right?
What veggies can your stomach tolerate better?

 

[Wonko]

if your body cant cope with the amount of food in a meal then the logical option is to eat less per meal and eat more meals so as to not let the calories consumuption drop too much

 

[August59]

I completely agree with small meals and more often. Personal experience has me avoiding iceberg lettuce, raw onions (red, white and yellow), no broccoli after lunch. I learned this one the hard way (my hard head), but NO eating within 2 hrs. of bedtime. Sleep doctor says no one can enter into deep (Stage 3 or 4) sleep if the stomach is digesting food overnight. Digestion slows drastically upon going to sleep, so what is on your stomach when you go to sleep will still be there when you get up. Why this happens IMO is because there are a lot of body processes that normally happen while your sleeping (liver is detoxing, brain is clearing memory and others).

 

[Cloud]

After I have eaten I feel all my blood going to the stomach and I "feel" like less blood is in my extremities and brain. This adds to the general post meal fogginess and thought disturbance I always have.

I also have POTS and NMH

I wonder if you have the same problem and if you've found dietary solutions to relieve it.
I know everyone says for example to eat whole grains or lot of vegetables, but they actually seems to worsen this problem by creating too much volume in my small stomach, so maybe I should actually eat less veggies and more concentrated calories.

What do you think?

It's called Post Prandial Hypotension. Your right, the blood is all going to your stomach, and for those of us without a surplus, will have exacerbated OI, POTS, NMH symptoms. I used to have really bad OI, and of course big time problems after I ate. Well, back then I always ate laying down anyhow....but it still affected me. Go with lighter meals.

 

[Sallysblooms]

I often get nausea at 3-4 am. I have POTS. I have to get up for a cold compress. This always helps my nausea. I had nausea all day today so my tummy had a cold pack on all day.

Anyway, I guess this is the same thing, the food would be gone by then though. Weird.

 

[Cloud]

I often get nausea at 3-4 am. I have POTS. I have to get up for a cold compress. This always helps my nausea. I had nausea all day today so my tummy had a cold pack on all day.

Anyway, I guess this is the same thing, the food would be gone by then though. Weird.

That's interesting Sally. Cold constricts blood vessels.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Yes, it must help. Sure helps me. Helps with pain too.

 

[Glynis Steele]

Hi Rich,

I noticed this thread, hope you don't mind me mentioning this, but hypovolemia - low blood volume is mentioned in this link, regarding d-lactic acidosis. I keep finding similarities between CFS and dla, and as the De Meirleir paper suggests a link between the 2 conditions, thought I'd mention this part.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7490/is_20100223/ai_n52343599/

Regards

Glynis

 

[richvank]

Forgot to ask this - Is there any other way (other than metylation block) to boost blood volume?

Hi, August59.

There are some temporary measures that people have used to boost blood volume, but in the long run, it's necessary to correct the diabetes insipidus, and normalizing the glutathione status by lifting the partial methylation cycle block appears to do this, while it corrects a lot of other aspects of CFS at the same time.

Some of the temporary measures people have used have been to consume more salt (but this should be done carefully, because too much has caused kidney problems in some people), drinking one of the electrolyte drinks, such as Gookinade or the home-brew version Dr. Cheney has suggested, or getting treatment from a physician with desmopressin (but this can cause problems with the sodium level in the blood). Some people wear support stockings to keep the blood from pooling in the legs. Some people have been prescribed Florinef, together with consuming more salt, but this can have problems, too.

Another temporary measure is to have an intravenous bag of saline prescribed by a physician. This can give a boost, but it doesn't last very long.

Really, the long-term solution is to fix the root cause, and the methylation cycle treatment is designed to do that. As always, I recommend that a person be under the care of a physician while on this treatment, because a small number of people have reported serious adverse effects while on it, as described in my article of July 18, 2007, which can be found at www.cfsresearch.org by clicking on CFS/M.E. and then on my name.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[richvank]

Hi Rich,

I noticed this thread, hope you don't mind me mentioning this, but hypovolemia - low blood volume is mentioned in this link, regarding d-lactic acidosis. I keep finding similarities between CFS and dla, and as the De Meirleir paper suggests a link between the 2 conditions, thought I'd mention this part.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7490/is_20100223/ai_n52343599/

Regards

Glynis

Hi, Glynis.

Thank you for posting this. I'm very interested in Dr. de Meirleir's work. There seems to be a lot of interaction between the gut problems in ME/CFS and the metabolic problems in the cells. Treatment for the gut problems directly is very important in cases in which the gut is having serious difficulty. I note that Dr. Yasko emphasized treating gut issues early on. before working on support for the methylation cycle. I don't yet understand all the effects of the D-lactate, but I believe Dr. de Meirleir about its importance.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Glynis Steele]

Hi Rich,

I note that Dr. Yasko emphasized treating gut issues early on. before working on support for the methylation cycle.

I have read this too, other people who follow chelation methods for children with autism agree, that the gut has to be in good condition first.

I have been trying to find out about the follow up on the CFS/DLA paper, and noted that Paul Gooley, who is mentioned in this paper, has applied for approval to take blood, urine and stool samples in CFS patients, to test for dla. I don't know how far on he is with this, though, it might still be in the early planning stage.

I found this thread from earlier in the year, when someone had said they had tested for dla in their urine. Dla is a serious condition, which only a GI specialises in. This person would need a referral to a GI, for further testing and treatment, if required. I think though that the GI would have a hard time believing that she had dla, as they only see it in short bowel patients. I feel this is probably why any similarities between CFS/DLA have not been taken more seriously, as the effects of dla is a speciality of a GI, not usual training for regular doc's.

http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...on-urine-test/page2&highlight=d-lactate+urine

For anyone interested dla symptoms are severe lethargy, changes in gait, slurred speech, or difficulty in speaking, hyperventilation, confusion, disorientation, dizziness, the feeling of being drunk without having had a drink, headaches, jaw clenching, carb craving and irritability.

Best Wishes

Glynis