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Statins for CFS?

Chris

Senior Member
Messages
845
Location
Victoria, BC
Hi, WestOz Girl; thanksand I have been doing a bit of checking into that aspect of sterols and sterolins that interests methe possibility that they, like (maybe) statins, can act as immune modulators and inhibit (retro)viral replication. There is a bit of research on this, some driven by a readily available product, Moducare, that I am about to try. Here are a couple of websites that cover this:

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/6/2/203.pdf

http://www.thorne.com/media/alterna...Volume_4/Number_3/Plant_Sterols_Sterolins.pdf

I dont know how firm these findings are, but they do suggest the possibility that they might be useful as part of our defence system against whatever bug(s) are bugging us. They would appear to act through different channels than the statins, so I shall for the time being simply adjust my already tiny dose of Lipitor down a bit more as I add a couple of caps of Moducare to my daily intake. But lets keep hoping that better answers are coming one of these days.
Best, Chris
 

Wonko

Senior Member
Messages
1,467
Location
The other side.
now your just being silly - everyone knows that diabetes is caused by the unemployed lower classes living on a sofa in a 10000 a week mansions, paid for by the tax payer, doing nothing but eat ice cream, chocolate, doughnuts and takeaways non stop while watching daytime TV to the sound of their 45 stae sponsored kids demolishing next doors car.

to suggest that a medical professional would give you a drug which could cause bone-idle fat scroungers syndrome is irresponsible and could encourage non compliance with medical advice in otherwise previously sane people. Do you want to be responsible for making thousands of people mentally incapable of making sane and rational decisions in an evidence based manner? please stop this lunacy, all drugs are safe and have no side effects - it's people, their false medication beliefs and their lifestyle choices that have negative side effects - not the drugs (which adjusted self selected evidence based testing says are perfectly safe)
 

Chris

Senior Member
Messages
845
Location
Victoria, BC
Those awful statins...

Hi, folks; thanks for the protective advice about the terrible side effects of statins. I am aware of them. But let's not be paranoid and let's look at some recorded facts. If you have documented CAD, as I do, they may have their place. Two docs have recorded success in stopping and reversing CAD: Ornstein, using diet and meditation and exercise, and Esselstyn, using a stricter diet and low dose statins. After over 20 years both groups are still doing well, but Esselstyn's are doing better as a group.

If low dose (and my dose is very very low) helps protect me from any CAD progression, and simultaneously MAY help a bit in inhibiting viral replication, that seems to me a reasonable trade off for the remote chance of some undesirable side effect. I may reconsider, I may rely on those sitosterols to do the same job more safely; but I don't think that 10 mg Lipitor every second day is likely to do dramatic damage.
Best, Chris
 

FunkOdyssey

Senior Member
Messages
144
Hepatogastroenterology. 2009 Nov-Dec;56(96):1704-9.
Lovastatin and fluvastatin reduce viremia and the pro-inflammatory cytokines in the patients with chronic hepatitis C.
Mih?il? R, Nedelcu L, Fr??il? O, Rezi EC, Domnariu C, Ciuc? R, Zaharie AV, Olteanu A, Bera L, Deac M, Mih?il? R.
Source

"Lucian Blaga" University of Sibiu, Romania. romeomihaila@yahoo.com
Abstract
BACKGROUNDS/AIMS:

Certain statins interfere with the mechanism of the hepatitis C virus replication. We aimed at studying the effect of statins on the level of viremia and of the pro-and anti-inflammatory cytokines in the patients with chronic hepatitis C.
METHODOLOGY:

We took in our study all the patients with chronic hepatitis C placed in the evidence of the clinics of internal medicine of the Emergency County Clinical Hospitals of Bra?ov, Oradea and Sibiu, who had been identified with viremias. The patients were treated with fluvastatin 40 mg/day or lovastatin 20 mg/day for 28 days. The level of viremia, hemoleukogram, hepatic biochemical tests and the pro and anti-inflammatory hepatic cytokines were analysed before and after the treatment. The final results were compared with the initial ones, as well as between the 2 groups.
RESULTS:

Regarding those 99 analysed patients, the initial average viremia was of 2376074 +/- 3427596 UI/ml, while the final one was of 1321136 +/- 1343570 UI/ml (p = 0.000987). Both, in the group treated with lovastatin, as well as in that treated with fluvastatin, the decrease of viremia was significant from the statistics point of view (p = 0.032, respectively p = 0.00092). Lovastatin administration resulted in the significant decrease of the pro-inflammatory cytokines IL-6 and TNF-alfa, while that of fluvastatin brought about the significant decrease of the serum levels of IL-6, IL-8 and TNF-alfa. There were no significant differences, statistically speaking, between the 2 determinations, regarding the levels of IL-10 (anti-inflammatory cytokine) and those of erythropoietin. Transaminases average level did not vary significantly after those 4 weeks of statins treatment.
CONCLUSIONS:

Lovastatin and fluvastatin, significantly decrease the level of viremia, of IL-6 and TNF-alpha in the patients with chronic hepatitis C.

PMID: 20214221
J Exp Med. 2004 Aug 16;200(4):541-7.
Statins inhibit HIV-1 infection by down-regulating Rho activity.
del Real G, Jimnez-Baranda S, Mira E, Lacalle RA, Lucas P, Gmez-Moutn C, Alegret M, Pea JM, Rodrguez-Zapata M, Alvarez-Mon M, Martnez-A C, Maes S.
Source

Department of Immunology and Oncology, Centro Nacional de Biotecnologa/CSIC, UAM Campus de Cantoblanco, E-28049 Madrid, Spain.
Abstract

Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-1 infectivity requires actin-dependent clustering of host lipid raft-associated receptors, a process that might be linked to Rho guanosine triphosphatase (GTPase) activation. Rho GTPase activity can be negatively regulated by statins, a family of drugs used to treat hypercholesterolemia in man. Statins mediate inhibition of Rho GTPases by impeding prenylation of small G proteins through blockade of 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase. We show that statins decreased viral load and increased CD4+ cell counts in acute infection models and in chronically HIV-1-infected patients. Viral entry and exit was reduced in statin-treated cells, and inhibition was blocked by the addition of l-mevalonate or of geranylgeranylpyrophosphate, but not by cholesterol. Cell treatment with a geranylgeranyl transferase inhibitor, but not a farnesyl transferase inhibitor, specifically inhibited entry of HIV-1-pseudotyped viruses. Statins blocked Rho-A activation induced by HIV-1 binding to target cells, and expression of the dominant negative mutant RhoN19 inhibited HIV-1 envelope fusion with target cell membranes, reducing cell infection rates. We suggest that statins have direct anti-HIV-1 effects by targeting Rho.

PMID: 15314078

This study is ongoing:

Trials. 2009 Jun 18;10:41.
Antiretroviral effect of lovastatin on HIV-1-infected individuals without highly active antiretroviral therapy (The LIVE study): a phase-II randomized clinical trial.
Montoya CJ, Jaimes F, Higuita EA, Convers-Pez S, Estrada S, Gutierrez F, Amariles P, Giraldo N, Pealoza C, Rugeles MT.
Source

Immunovirology Group, University of Antioquia, Medellin, Colombia. cjmonto@une.net.co
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Highly active antiretroviral therapy produces a significant decrease in HIV-1 replication and allows an increase in the CD4 T-cell count, leading to a decrease in the incidence of opportunistic infections and mortality. However, the cost, side effects and complexity of antiretroviral regimens have underscored the immediate need for additional therapeutic approaches. Statins exert pleiotropic effects through a variety of mechanisms, among which there are several immunoregulatory effects, related and unrelated to their cholesterol-lowering activity that can be useful to control HIV-1 infection.
METHODS/DESIGN:

Randomized, double-blinded, placebo controlled, single-center, phase-II clinical trial. One hundred and ten chronically HIV-1-infected patients, older than 18 years and nave for antiretroviral therapy (i.e., without prior or current management with antiretroviral drugs) will be enrolled at the outpatient services from the most important centres for health insurance care in Medellin-Colombia. The interventions will be lovastatin (40 mg/day, orally, for 12 months; 55 patients) or placebo (55 patients). Our primary aim will be to determine the effect of lovastatin on viral replication. The secondary aim will be to determine the effect of lovastatin on CD4+ T-cell count in peripheral blood. As tertiary aims we will explore differences in CD8+ T-cell count, expression of activation markers (CD38 and HLA-DR) on CD4 and CD8 T cells, cholesterol metabolism, LFA-1/ICAM-1 function, Rho GTPases function and clinical evolution between treated and not treated HIV-1-infected individuals.
DISCUSSION:

Preliminary descriptive studies have suggested that statins (lovastatin) may have anti HIV-1 activity and that their administration is safe, with the potential effect of controlling HIV-1 replication in chronically infected individuals who had not received antiretroviral medications. Considering that there is limited clinical data available on this topic, all these findings warrant further evaluation to determine if long-term administration of statins may benefit the virological and immunological evolution in HIV-1-infected individuals before the use of antiretroviral therapy is required.
TRIAL REGISTRATION:

Registration number NCT00721305.

PMID: 19538732
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
Is anyone taking statins together with the Coenzyme Q10 and Pregnenolone that Teitelbaum referenced? Chris, any progress? I note that the point of Teitelbaum's article was that Coenzyme Q10 and Pregnenolone corrected the problems caused by taking Simvastatin, so that criticism of taking statins should be addressed in that light, rather than just dismissing their use.

The science on Atk1 signalling and statins is very interesting. I am particular interested in treating PIV5 virus which interacts with ATK1 signalling. http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/winter-vol11-2.htm

There is interesting reference to ATK pathway in this XMRV/prostate cancer paper by Silverman http://www.nature.com/nrurol/journal/v7/n7/full/nrurol.2010.77.html
 

john66

Senior Member
Messages
159
I have familial hyperlipidemia, which means my cholesterol numbers are in the 3-400's. Been on every statin since lovistatin, they always make my CPK go into the thousands, which indicates muscle damage. I think this was the start of CFS for me. I found a doctor who is not a believer in the lipid theory of heart disease, instead he is more focused on inflammatory signals such as hsCRP, homocystiene and insulin. His take is that it is oxidized ldl that causes the problems. My last straw with Crestor was transient global amnesia, just lost my mind. Could not remember where I lived or that red lights meant stop.
 

xks201

Senior Member
Messages
740
I don't mean to sound like an ass but unless you are showing serious improvement I wouldn't recommend a statin to anyone. My friend took them and now he is bedridden. They can have serious side effects.
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
I don't mean to sound like an ass but unless you are showing serious improvement I wouldn't recommend a statin to anyone. My friend took them and now he is bedridden. They can have serious side effects.


That seems to be the consensus. I am still looking for an Akt1 inhibitor and am considering high dosage inositol, which is not a statin.
 

August59

Daughters High School Graduation
Messages
1,617
Location
Upstate SC, USA
I've taken several statins and I quit, but I did not get the very bad reactions that a lot of people get. I just get get a moderate muscle stiffness and pain. The main reason I was receiving them was for high triglycerides. Plus my HDL is always in the high 30's which is not good. I finally had a doctor put me on Triglide, which is a fenofibrate and my triglycerides dropped from the middle 300's to the low 100's and of course LDL improved then and to the doctor's surprise my HDL went to the high 40's. Changed doctor's and he took me off and said I need to be on statins. I told to note even get out his prescription paid because I'm not going to take, but he still will not give me the Triglide and my last labs had my triglycerides back in the 300's. So, I'm looking for a new doctor!
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
My old CFS specialist told me to avoid statins thou my cholestrol level was high. (He said something about they dont just get rid of the negative type but also the protective fats too.. and that if one had a heart attack while on one.. there is an increased risk of death.

I do think due to my cholestrol levels going up even higher, that my latest CFS specialist will want me on them.. so its really interesting to hear they may have some kind of antiviral effect :) (I do take fibre supplements too daily which are supposed to help lower cholestrol but they dont seem to do a thing in that way for me).

If I get put on the statins I'll post again to say if they are helping in anyway or not. The whole concept of them may help with the ME/CFS is intreguing me. Thanks for this thread.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
now your just being silly - everyone knows that diabetes is caused by the unemployed lower classes living on a sofa in a 10000 a week mansions, paid for by the tax payer, doing nothing but eat ice cream, chocolate, doughnuts and takeaways non stop while watching daytime TV to the sound of their 45 stae sponsored kids demolishing next doors car.

to suggest that a medical professional would give you a drug which could cause bone-idle fat scroungers syndrome is irresponsible and could encourage non compliance with medical advice in otherwise previously sane people. Do you want to be responsible for making thousands of people mentally incapable of making sane and rational decisions in an evidence based manner? please stop this lunacy, all drugs are safe and have no side effects - it's people, their false medication beliefs and their lifestyle choices that have negative side effects - not the drugs (which adjusted self selected evidence based testing says are perfectly safe)

I dont know if your response to Levi's post is a joke or not as I cant tell. But quite a few commonly used meds, can actually increase a persons risk of diabetes. (I was annoyed as one of my doctors had me on a med which carrrieds that risk...and then I later found out I had prediabetes (insulin resistance).
 

Chris

Senior Member
Messages
845
Location
Victoria, BC
Hi, all; catching up on this thread. I have now been off my tiny dose of statins for some months; my last cholesterol reading was up a bit (around 170), and my cardio would prefer me to go back on statins, but have decided for the time being that I won't. There have been recent studies showing muscular (mitos) damage in the majority of statin users, even without reparted muscle pain or weakness, and also perhaps more disturbingly, confirmation of Langsjoen's older (ca. 2004-6) papers showing that they caused diastolic dysfunction, which I have--as do most with ME, according to Cheney, and I think he has proved his point on that pretty convincingly in his DVDs.
So I am back to AHCC and Terry Wahls and raising my Vit D levels with UV lamps and now, finally, some real sun--it takes a while for it to reach us up here in Victoria, British Columbia.

And I am also retrospectively rethinking the possible meaning of the fact that this disease began for me with two visits to Emergency (Dec 2006-Jan 2007) in which I was told that I had high myoglobin, but no troponin, and was therefore sent home. My docs at the time made nothing of this, but reading Stephanie Seneff's paper on Statins raised the possibility that this represented statin-caused muscle degneration (almost the beginning of rhabdomyolisis); I shall raise this the next time I see my doc. So for the time being no statins, but on with AHCC or whatever Beta Glucans seems best, more sterols (Moducare) and loads of green veg and sun!
Happy day after ME Awareness Day! Chris
 
Messages
2
Location
Australia
I still suspect the 4 year use of Lipitor caused my ME/CFS.
Any research on that one? Cholesterol is the precursor for all hormones.
All my hormones are very low. (recently discovered): Hashimoto's, Adrenal Depletion, Low Progesterone. Low vit D.
Statins are a billion dollar industry. Of course they are not bad! :mad:
 

anciendaze

Senior Member
Messages
1,841
There is one situation in which doctors do not want to lower LDL levels: nerve damage. Nerves like the ones running from your back to your toe have an unusually high ratio of surface area to volume. The cell membrane is largely composed of molecules related to LDL. If you have a nerve injury you should not be trying to reduce levels of biochemicals needed to repair nerves.

With effects on mitochondria as well as nerves, and anecdotal reports that ME/CFS patients have trouble tolerating statins, I would advise caution. This could be good for 99% of the population, and bad for you. In that case, I think you know what authoritative recommendations would favor.

A major part of our problem is that we are not generic patients, which doctors prefer to treat.
 

Levi

Senior Member
Messages
188
Red yeast rice combined with CoQ-10 makes more sense for someone doing a trial to investigate if statins help. First, do no harm . . .