Start Up symptoms from Mag, B6 and Zinc?

[tahoma]

I started a protocol to reduce oxalates using about 50-100mg B6, 50-75mg zinc and about 600mg Magnesium. Within about 10 days I had the most horrendous healing crisis that lasted just over a week. Symptoms included: allover aching (bones, muscles, joints, hair follicles!), raw throat, raw lungs, coughing up mucus, chills, unrelenting headache, sore bottoms of feet, stiff neck, bad malaise, frequent and strong smelling urine, foul intestinal gas.. Also, it's the first time in these 14 years I've been ill that I've broken a fever as well.

Could this have been start up symptoms for methylation?

 

[sueami]

In my (limited) understanding, no. Methylation starts up with B12 and methylfolate.

However, two of your three supps are what @ahmo takes for pyroluria -- the B6 (if it is in P5P form) and the zinc. Perhaps she has some ideas about might be happening.

 

[ahmo]

correct, I take these for pyroluria. Only thing I can guess is that you pushed some sort of detox response...When I started p5p and high zinc, I felt excellent. Maybe it has to do w/ eliminating the oxalates, tho from what I've read, this tends to include burning w/ urination as oxalates are dumped. How about asking in whatever place you got the protocol?

 

[tahoma]

Thank you both for your replies. I had pyroluria in the past. I took b6 and zinc a few years ago for pyroluria and had a detox response then as well. I did discuss this with the person who put me on the protocol, but thought I'd ask here for further information, as I have never thought this illness was just one condition... Thanks!

 

[ahmo]

Do you know Klinghardt's work on pyroluria? Excellent vid, the 1st pdf is slides from the vid. cheers.

Klinghardt: Autism, Lyme, Pyroluria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-z3kRDYcvhA


Short Version (36pg) Pyroluria/Lyme protocol. From Powerpoint doc used during Klinghardt presentation: Lyme Induced Autism

http://www.lymeinducedautism.com/images/1_KlinghardtKPU_09_PX.pdf



A Treatment Guide: Lyme and Other Chronic Infections (92 pgs) D. Klinghardt MD, 2009

http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/images/stories/powerpoints/treatinglyme 2010.pdf

 

[tahoma]

Yes, ahmo, I have seen him personally. Thank you!

 

[ahmo]

lucky you!

 

[Milford]

I started a protocol to reduce oxalates using about 50-100mg B6, 50-75mg zinc and about 600mg Magnesium. Within about 10 days I had the most horrendous healing crisis that lasted just over a week. Symptoms included: allover aching (bones, muscles, joints, hair follicles!), raw throat, raw lungs, coughing up mucus, chills, unrelenting headache, sore bottoms of feet, stiff neck, bad malaise, frequent and strong smelling urine, foul intestinal gas.. Also, it's the first time in these 14 years I've been ill that I've broken a fever as well.

Could this have been start up symptoms for methylation?

That is a lot of Zinc to be taking. If your Zinc was originally very low, then your Copper might have been high as a result. When you add in high Zinc, the balance changes and Copper is dumped...... Some people get very strong symptoms from this. Also Zinc displaces Heavy Metals.... So there might have been some of that going on. Zinc is also essential for the Methionine Synthase enzyme to work, so correcting a deficiency will "appear" to start up Methylation. Low Zinc also causes low stomach acid, so now you have more Zn you might be absorbing B12 better.
End result of all these combined is abig detox reaction......as you seem to be experiencing.
Sounds like you might be on to something, but you might want to cut back doses to give yourself a break.

 

[PeterPositive]

Thank you both for your replies. I had pyroluria in the past. I took b6 and zinc a few years ago for pyroluria and had a detox response then as well. I did discuss this with the person who put me on the protocol, but thought I'd ask here for further information, as I have never thought this illness was just one condition... Thanks!

Well in theory Pyroluria is not something that can be fixed with a temporary supplementation of Zn and B6, it is should be done indefinitely to keep up with the excessive dumping of those two nutrients and possibly also manganese and biotin, as Klinghardt says, if I recall correctly.

As others have said B6 and zinc are important co-factors in the methylation cycle even though they are less "popular" than B12 and folate. Magnesium has also some role in it, although not critical.

The only concern is that high dosage of Zn might deplete copper after some time, so you may want to watch that and possibly support it with a few mgs of copper. The usual proposed ratio is 1-2mg every 15mg of Zinc.

From Linus Pauling website:

Taking large quantities of zinc (50 mg/day or more) over a period of weeks can interfere with copper bioavailability. High intake of zinc induces the intestinal synthesis of a copper-binding protein called metallothionein. Metallothionein traps copper within intestinal cells and prevents its systemic absorption (see Copper). More typical intakes of zinc do not affect copper absorption and high copper intakes do not affect zinc absorption (6).

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/zinc/

Also see here:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/511087-how-to-take-copper-with-zinc/

 

[musicchick581]

I'm being treated for pyroluria as well.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I second what everybody said, and would like to add that, besides having a big detox/retox reaction, you probably have worsened mineral and B vits imbalances now.

I think magnesium IS crucial, but ideal levels of potassium, calcium, manganese, boron, sodium, selenium should be also considered (not to mention the vitamins).

 

[Sophiedw]

Hello, could taking zinc over a long period of time deplete b6? Thanks

 

[Gondwanaland]

Hello, could taking zinc over a long period of time deplete b6? Thanks

Too much zinc? Probably yes. I am taking 15mg Zinc daily and noticed that my Homocysteine results have been optimal (ithey don't go above 8 anymore), so I suppose zinc activates B6 better than taking B vitamins themselves.

ETA-- I think this moderate amount of Zn even helps to better absorb B6 from food.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Hello, could taking zinc over a long period of time deplete b6? Thanks

Reading your question got me thinking on Zn supplementation... Since I started taking it daily last February, I started having some strange headaches and migraines... After reading your question I started thinking that B2 takes Zn to activate B6... I am now taking B2 with my Zn and at bedtime and my morning headaches are gone! Thanks!