Seriphos for high cortisol

[Mary]

First, I didn't have reversed circadian rhythm, just high cortisol at night, which caused severe insomnia. Anyways, for it to work for me, two things were important: (1) the right dose, and (2), taking it in the morning.

I had to experiment to find the right dose and found I needed 8 capsules a day. I started I think with probably 2 capsules and worked up until I found an effective dose. 8 capsules is quite a high dose but that's what it took to lower my cortisol enough to allow me to sleep. So if I'd only taken 1 or 2, it wouldn't have done a thing for me. After a few months I was able to start cutting my dose. This was 15 years ago. I generally don't need it any more but once in a while I do, but at a much lower dose. I'm not recommending that anyone start with 8 capsules, I think each person has to experiment to find what works for them. And if 8 capsules is too much, of course it could cause cortisol to drop too low.

Also, I read and experienced for myself that it should be taken in the morning, and not at night. At night it caused a weird sort of insomnia for me. It has to do with the circadian rhythm. Taken in the morning, there were no bad side effects for me, and it made me feel calmer during the day and better able to cope with stress.

I know this illness is very rough and I feel for everyone has it. I've found several things that have helped my functioning mainly through a lot of reading and self-experimentation and muscle testing. Doctors for the most part have been useless for me, except for one doctor who got me on desiccated thyroid and d-ribose and a few other things, but unfortunately died a few years ago.

Things that have helped me a lot include thiamine, P-5-P, methylfolate, B12, adrenal glandular, potassium, monosodium phosphate, betaine HCL with pepsin, glycine (helped immeasurably with detoxing), branched chain amino acids. I think these are the main ones. Andrographis keeps me from being sick all the time, and sodium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate are helping with an almost constant acidity which causes aching muscles and fatigue. Without all this, I would be much worse off. I had to do a lot of self-experimentation. Muscle testing was invaluable in helping me figure out what was going on when I would react to something and whether it was good for me or not, and also what dose would work.

I guess I'm trying to say there may be things that can help you. No, I haven't been restored to health, but I definitely feel better in between crashing with all of this. And no, I shouldn't have to take it all just to function, but I do. Chris Armstrong believes ME/CFS has a lot in common with starvation, and I think that's why I need all of this. Before I developed ME/CFS, I didn't.

 

[Wizard333]

First, I didn't have reversed circadian rhythm, just high cortisol at night, which caused severe insomnia. Anyways, for it to work for me, two things were important: (1) the right dose, and (2), taking it in the morning.

I had to experiment to find the right dose and found I needed 8 capsules a day. I started I think with probably 2 capsules and worked up until I found an effective dose. 8 capsules is quite a high dose but that's what it took to lower my cortisol enough to allow me to sleep. So if I'd only taken 1 or 2, it wouldn't have done a thing for me. After a few months I was able to start cutting my dose. This was 15 years ago. I generally don't need it any more but once in a while I do, but at a much lower dose. I'm not recommending that anyone start with 8 capsules, I think each person has to experiment to find what works for them. And if 8 capsules is too much, of course it could cause cortisol to drop too low.

Also, I read and experienced for myself that it should be taken in the morning, and not at night. At night it caused a weird sort of insomnia for me. It has to do with the circadian rhythm. Taken in the morning, there were no bad side effects for me, and it made me feel calmer during the day and better able to cope with stress.

I know this illness is very rough and I feel for everyone has it. I've found several things that have helped my functioning mainly through a lot of reading and self-experimentation and muscle testing. Doctors for the most part have been useless for me, except for one doctor who got me on desiccated thyroid and d-ribose and a few other things, but unfortunately died a few years ago.

Things that have helped me a lot include thiamine, P-5-P, methylfolate, B12, adrenal glandular, potassium, monosodium phosphate, betaine HCL with pepsin, glycine (helped immeasurably with detoxing), branched chain amino acids. I think these are the main ones. Andrographis keeps me from being sick all the time, and sodium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate are helping with an almost constant acidity which causes aching muscles and fatigue. Without all this, I would be much worse off. I had to do a lot of self-experimentation. Muscle testing was invaluable in helping me figure out what was going on when I would react to something and whether it was good for me or not, and also what dose would work.

I guess I'm trying to say there may be things that can help you. No, I haven't been restored to health, but I definitely feel better in between crashing with all of this. And no, I shouldn't have to take it all just to function, but I do. Chris Armstrong believes ME/CFS has a lot in common with starvation, and I think that's why I need all of this. Before I developed ME/CFS, I didn't.

@Mary i was taking 1 seriphos before dinner and 2 seriphos before bed for the past 6 months. It was working to keep my cortisol lower at night but sleep was still rough. I want to try it in the morning. When you use seriphos now, what dosing regimen do you use(how many and at what time?). Have you ever taken it in the morning and at night? Thanks! Appreciate a response greatly!

 

[Mary]

@Mary i was taking 1 seriphos before dinner and 2 seriphos before bed for the past 6 months. It was working to keep my cortisol lower at night but sleep was still rough. I want to try it in the morning. When you use seriphos now, what dosing regimen do you use(how many and at what time?). Have you ever taken it in the morning and at night? Thanks! Appreciate a response greatly!

Hi @Wizard333 - I only take Seriphos sporadically right now, as needed. When I do take it, I always take it in the morning. Lately I've been taking 2 off and on, late morning on an empty stomach.

I've never taken it morning and night. Initially I took it at night, as I was told to, and had a very bad reaction, a weird awful insomnia. When I switched to the morning, it was like night and day (no pun intended! ) I felt calmer, started sleeping better, it was great.

But when I first taking Seriphos, as I noted above, I needed 8 capsules a day, which was a very high dose. We're all different and people need to find out for themselves what dose will work for them. I did this by titrating up, starting with 2 I think, and worked up gradually to an effective dose.

 

[Wizard333]

Hi @Wizard333 - I only take Seriphos sporadically right now, as needed. When I do take it, I always take it in the morning. Lately I've been taking 2 off and on, late morning on an empty stomach.

I've never taken it morning and night. Initially I took it at night, as I was told to, and had a very bad reaction, a weird awful insomnia. When I switched to the morning, it was like night and day (no pun intended! ) I felt calmer, started sleeping better, it was great.

But when I first taking Seriphos, as I noted above, I needed 8 capsules a day, which was a very high dose. We're all different and people need to find out for themselves what dose will work for them. I did this by titrating up, starting with 2 I think, and worked up gradually to an effective dose.

@Mary how did you know you needed more when you started at 2? You would still have anxiety/feel high cortisol in the mornings or you weren’t sleeping well yet? This is tricky stuff so I appreciate your input. I started taking 1 this morning and it dropped my BP to where it usually was (was 15 points higher), so I’m thinking I might only need a low dose. Not sure if I should still take my night dose though

 

[Mary]

@Mary how did you know you needed more when you started at 2? You would still have anxiety/feel high cortisol in the mornings or you weren’t sleeping well yet? This is tricky stuff so I appreciate your input. I started taking 1 this morning and it dropped my BP to where it usually was (was 15 points higher), so I’m thinking I might only need a low dose. Not sure if I should still take my night dose though

Hi @Wizard333 - I was taking it for sleep. My sleep was VERY bad middle of the night so I started with 2 capsules in the morning (after I discovered it made me sleep so badly when taken at night), and I gradually increased my dose - in the morning only - until I finally started sleeping better, which happened at 8 capsules. With 8 capsules, I took 4 first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and 4 late morning on an empty stomach also.

As a side effect, I found myself feeling calmer during the day and better able to handle stress. It was a very nice feeling!

After I discovered that taking Seriphos at night caused me to sleep even worse, I came across an article which stated that it should be taken in the morning, it had something to do with circadian rhythm. I know there are practitioners and articles which say to take it at night, but that did not work for me at all, but taking it in the morning worked great.

Interesting that your BP dropped with only one capsule - it is very possible that that may be all you need. You might try an experiment and see how you do with that dose and skipping the night time dose. I don't know of any other way to find out how much you may need. And again, 8 capsules was a very high dose. I would never suggest that someone start with that much.

 

[Wizard333]

Hi @Wizard333 - I was taking it for sleep. My sleep was VERY bad middle of the night so I started with 2 capsules in the morning (after I discovered it made me sleep so badly when taken at night), and I gradually increased my dose - in the morning only - until I finally started sleeping better, which happened at 8 capsules. With 8 capsules, I took 4 first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and 4 late morning on an empty stomach also.

As a side effect, I found myself feeling calmer during the day and better able to handle stress. It was a very nice feeling!

After I discovered that taking Seriphos at night caused me to sleep even worse, I came across an article which stated that it should be taken in the morning, it had something to do with circadian rhythm. I know there are practitioners and articles which say to take it at night, but that did not work for me at all, but taking it in the morning worked great.

Interesting that your BP dropped with only one capsule - it is very possible that that may be all you need. You might try an experiment and see how you do with that dose and skipping the night time dose. I don't know of any other way to find out how much you may need. And again, 8 capsules was a very high dose. I would never suggest that someone start with that much.

@Mary thanks so much for your responses. I’ll let you know how it goes!

 

[Wizard333]

@Mary question: I’m pretty sure I’m like you. I quit the seriphos at night time and slept better the first 4-5 hours. Then I had wicked cortisol kick in. I did 4 seriphos (1 at a time slowly in 15-30 minute intervals to make sure I didn’t overdo it) I didn’t get back to sleep but I feel like 4 might be it. How did you land on the number 4 in the early morning and another 4 in the late morning? I’m trying to predict what’s ahead of me and what clues I should use to know if I need more or less. I also think I read somewhere you were taking adrenal glandular while doing this right?(I am taking some as well). Thanks for your feedback I feel this could be the turning point and I’m very excited(although tired)

 

[Wizard333]

@Mary I’m also guessing if I get the early morning dosage right, I’ll sleep a lot better and when I work up to the correct late morning dosage that will just set me for the rest of the day?

 

[Mary]

How did you land on the number 4 in the early morning and another 4 in the late morning? I’m trying to predict what’s ahead of me and what clues I should use to know if I need more or less.

This was 15 or 16 years ago when I needed such a high dose, so I don't remember exactly what I did but am sure it was something like the following. The only clue I looked at was how well I slept. I believe I started with 2 capsules in the morning (after the night time dosing fiasco). I probably waited a day or two and increased it by 2 I'm guessing, and kept repeating this until my sleep got under control. So, e.g., at 4 capsules a day I was still having middle of the night insomnia so kept increasing it.
I ended up taking 4 first thing in the morning and 4 late morning because I was taking so much. If I was only taking 2 or so I'd probably have just taken them all at once. I generally divide up supplements when I have to take more than a couple.

I also think I read somewhere you were taking adrenal glandular while doing this right?(I am taking some as well).

Yes. I've been taking an adrenal glandular off and on (mostly on) for over 20 years. My chiropractor who does muscle testing found that my adrenals were very weak back in the 1990's sometime, and I felt weak as a kitten, he started me on Drenatrophin PMG by Standard Process, on a high dose, I think 9 tablets a day, and within a few days my energy started returning. I now take 1 or 2 a day as needed, which I determine by muscle testing.

@Mary I’m also guessing if I get the early morning dosage right, I’ll sleep a lot better and when I work up to the correct late morning dosage that will just set me for the rest of the day?

I don't know the answer to this. Like I said above, I just divided my dose because it was so large. It wasn't for particular results. Now when I take 1 or 2 Seriphos on occasion, I generally just take them late morning. I think you'll have to experiment to find what works best for you.

 

[Wizard333]

Thanks @Mary youve been extremely helpful. Out of curiosity why do you sometimes take seriphos still? Do you take it whenever you feel like you’re not sleeping as well?

Also, last question: I saw you mention you got tired after a while when you were taking so many seriphos after it had corrected the cycle. Do you remember about how long it took to go from 8 in the morning to feeling fatigued and did you reduce them slowly or did you cut all the way down to 2 or something? I just want to be prepared! Thanks again so much. You’re wonderful.

 

[Mary]

Out of curiosity why do you sometimes take seriphos still? Do you take it whenever you feel like you’re not sleeping as well?

Yeah, I still do wrestle with middle of the night insomnia periodically. And I'll do muscle testing to see if I need Seriphos. I also take several other supplements for sleep: niacin (the kind that makes you flush), inositol, glycine, magnesium glycinate, ornithine, taurine, l-theanine, melatonin - it feels ridiculous, but it all helps! Vitamin C also helps - it can mop up excess glutamate so I take it before bed and middle of the night. I don't think all of my insomnia is due to high cortisol, so these other things all help, but once in awhile it feels like my cortisol has risen a bit, but nothing like 15 years ago!

Do you remember about how long it took to go from 8 in the morning to feeling fatigued and did you reduce them slowly or did you cut all the way down to 2 or something?

I think it was a couple of months. I've learned a lot since then and I think I pay closer attention to my body - I generally know better what's going on with it. To be honest, a couple of months sounds like a long time to me to take 8 capsules a day, but I think that's what it was. I guess my cortisol was severely out of whack. I assume I cut back by a couple of capsules, then waiting a couple of days, titrating down the way I titrated up.

From what you wrote, it doesn't sound like you will need the high dose I took so I think it very well could be fairly easy for you to manage your dosing of Seriphos.

 

[Wizard333]

@Mary just a report and logging my experience here with seriphos so others can find it.... I used 5 seriphos yesterday morning and took half a seriphos at 5pm which I didn’t really feel(good news) just to maintain some kind of small consistency with what I had did the previous day. My cortisol levels surged greatly yesterday morning but I got them under control with the 5 seriphos and they stayed at a normal level the rest of the day and through sleep. I broke out in hives last night right before bed because of something else I take (bpc157) and I couldn’t fall asleep for like 4 hours. I assume since my cortisol felt right where it was supposed to be, that it was the hives that kept me awake. I slept from 4am to 7am(later than the previous morning of 2-6am to a huge surge). My cortisol definitely didn’t spike this morning like yesterday morning and I’ve currently done 4 seriphos this morning so far which is either just perfect or slightly too much (hard to distinguish low cortisol levels when you haven’t slept much in several nights). I’m looking forward to tonight where I won’t use bpc and see how I do! Wish me luck!

 

[Mary]

I’m looking forward to tonight where I won’t use bpc and see how I do! Wish me luck!

@Wizard333 - good luck! I'm very familiar with lack of sleep and hope you do better tonight! I've found that cortisol is just one of the factors in insomnia. Taurine, ornithine, glycine and inositol are also helping me, as well as niacin, vitamin C and melatonin. But if I didn't have my cortisol under control, I don't think any of these things would help, so I think cortisol is a good starting point.

Have you ever had an Adrenal Stress Index test done? It uses 4 (or 5) saliva samples taking during the day/evening. It showed my high nighttime cortisol way back when. A few years later I had another one done and my cortisol was much better. It might be helpful for you if you haven't had one done already.

 

[Wizard333]

@Wizard333 - good luck! I'm very familiar with lack of sleep and hope you do better tonight! I've found that cortisol is just one of the factors in insomnia. Taurine, ornithine, glycine and inositol are also helping me, as well as niacin, vitamin C and melatonin. But if I didn't have my cortisol under control, I don't think any of these things would help, so I think cortisol is a good starting point.

Have you ever had an Adrenal Stress Index test done? It uses 4 (or 5) saliva samples taking during the day/evening. It showed my high nighttime cortisol way back when. A few years later I had another one done and my cortisol was much better. It might be helpful for you if you haven't had one done already.

@Mary i had cortisol tests done they show very high middle of night and morning cortisol.

I did 4 seriphos yesterday morning (also 600mg of relora and 3mg of controlled release melatonin at bedtime as usual). I slept 6 hours straight!!!! UNHEARD of. I encourage anyone reading this who is taking seriphos at night to stop taking them at night and just take it in the morning. Thanks Mary. You may have just completely helped change my life.

 

[Mary]

@Wizard - I'm so glad to hear this! Yeah, again, it was like night and day (pun intended!!!) when I switched from taking Seriphos at night to taking it in the morning - no comparison!

 

[Wizard333]

Logging still: the next day I did 4.5 seriphos towards the morning and got way too tired. Slept through the night again.

next day: did 3 seriphos in the morning and got way too tired for most of the day and got normal around dinner time and slept through the night again

today: took 2 seriphos as soon as I woke up and got way too tired again and fell back asleep for an hour and a half after a full night sleep. I expect energy to recover again fully around dinner time

tomorrow I will move down to only 1 seriphos and would doubt that would make me too tired but overall things are going incredible!

Hopefully this is helpful to others. Keep in mind this would also not be possible/sustainable at all if I wasn’t on high dosage adrenal cortex and high dosage brain glandular. The easiest formula to make sure you have this is dr Wilson’s adrenal rebuilder. If I had done this without that I would no doubt have super high anxiety when I take the seriphos and far too low cortisol to modulate them effectively.
Thanks @Mary

 

[Wizard333]

I would like a really reliable home test for 24 hour cortisol readings. If possible a urine test, as I am useless at disciplining myself not to eat/drink/do....this or that you're not supposed to before the saliva test, for a certain amount of time.
It's a nightmare getting to see the doctor here, and I can imagine he wouldn't even see the need for it, and would tell me the usual "good sleep" tips instead....and I would walk away without the tests.

As I said I actually sleep fine (mostly -with blips) But I am a shaky wreck almost every morning, with a body temperature more suitable for 3-4am, even at 10am.... and much more stable and steady in the evenings. I suspect something may be amiss with cortisol, but am loath to experiment with supplements etc until I was sure.

@Wolfcub
I would definitely do 5 point cortisol testing as a first stop

 

[Wizard333]

Been on 1 seriphos per morning last few mornings. Have done the best workouts I’ve done in years in the past few days including 1 hour of vinyasa yoga and some jogs. I got really tired this morning when I took the 1 seriphos so I might be ready to quit it all together ror it may just be because I have been exercising and I’m tired but I’m guessing I probably don’t even need seriphos now my body adjusts very quick to things

 

[Wizard333]

Been on 1 seriphos per morning last few mornings. Have done the best workouts I’ve done in years in the past few days including 1 hour of vinyasa yoga and some jogs. I got really tired this morning when I took the 1 seriphos so I might be ready to quit it all together ror it may just be because I have been exercising and I’m tired but I’m guessing I probably don’t even need seriphos now my body adjusts very quick to things

after 10 days of taking seriphos every morning instead of night, I’m attempting to go no seriphos at all today because I feel I was tired yesterday from even only 1 seriphos. Will report back the next few days to see if 10 days was enough

 

[Wizard333]

Not ready for no seriphos in the morning yet after 10 days. Had a lot of cortisol after 3 hours of sleep and had to take 5 seriphos with 3mg melatonin to get it down again to get back to sleep. I’m going to take out the relora at night time and keep seriphos in the morning. I think the relora I take at night in addition to seriphos in the morning might be the reason why I was getting tired in the morning. Overall managing this pretty well.