Rethinking Probiotics.

Ema

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@Asklipia just brought to my attention that lactobacillus plantarum is listed as both histamine producing and degrading. Talk about confusing...
I think it is because it is tyramine producing...and tyramine is also a biological amine like histamine. You often see them both to be avoided on low histamine diets.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2180/12/199

That's all I can figure anyway...

I should probably edit the first post to reflect that as well.
 

Ema

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Here's the citation for the article the Low Histamine Chef quoted regarding L plantarum...I've requested the full article and will keep you all posted!

Screening selected strains of probiotic lactic acid bacteria for their ability to produce biogenic amines (histamine andtyramine).(Report)
Priyadarshani, Wadu Mesthri Deepika ; Rakshit, Sudip K.
International Journal of Food Science and Technology, Oct, 2011, Vol.46(10), p.2062(8) [Peer Reviewed Journal]
 

ahmo

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I spent a couple hours on iherb in Nov/Dec, searching for lowhistaminechef's qualities. I settled on the first 2 of the 3 linked below. My other requirements were ability to ship w/o ice, and no lactose, no prebiotics, to suit my GAPS diet. In addition to these two, I alternate w/ soil-based Prescript Assist.

http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Primadophilus-Reuteri-Pearls-60-Pearls/14704
1 Billion CFU Lactobacillus acidophilus; Bifidobacterium longum; Lactobacillus reuteri; Lactobacillus rhamnosus)

* http://www.iherb.com/Ortho-Molecula...798#p=2&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=lactobacillus plantarum&rc=184&sr=null&ic=47
Proprietary Blend
20 Billion CFU++
Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus paracasei,
Bifidobacterium bifidum,
Bifidobacterium lactis
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Saccharomyces Boulardii

http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Advance...ggie-Caps/14215#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=l. paracasei&rc=36&sr=null&ic=3
L. acidophilus, LA-5
B. lactis, BB-12
L. paracasei, L. CASEI 431
L. rhamnosus GG, LGG

http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Advance...eggie-Caps/8751#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=l. paracasei&rc=36&sr=null&ic=6
Advanced 40+ Acidophilus Complex providing
L. acidophilus, LA-5
L. rhamnosus GG, LGG
L. paracasei, L CASEI 431
B. lactis, BB-12
S. thermophilus, TH-4
 

ahmo

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@maryb, I can't say. When I ask my body, it seems happier w/ these than w/ the ones I'd been using. I'm finally on top of my histamine responses after more than a decade of near-constant outbreaks. I've also been using rutin, royal jelly, and quercetin to good effect. cheers, ahmo
 

maryb

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Thanks - I guess its just a question of trying different ones. Glad to hear you're body likes them:)
its so hard to find the right combination - its out there somewhere though.........
 

Ema

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Here's the citation for the article the Low Histamine Chef quoted regarding L plantarum...I've requested the full article and will keep you all posted!

Screening selected strains of probiotic lactic acid bacteria for their ability to produce biogenic amines (histamine andtyramine).(Report)
Priyadarshani, Wadu Mesthri Deepika ; Rakshit, Sudip K.
International Journal of Food Science and Technology, Oct, 2011, Vol.46(10), p.2062(8) [Peer Reviewed Journal]
Here's what I think is a relevant part of that article:

The strains of L. plantarum and Lactococ- cus lactis subsp. lactis isolated in our laboratory possessing important probiotic characteristics (Pian- pumepong & Noomhorm, 2010) could be recommended as potential functional or starter organisms as they did not produce BA. The accumulation of BA in foods requires the presence of precursor amino acids, micro- organisms possessing decarboxylase enzyme activity and favourable conditions for the growth and decarboxyl- ation (ten Brink et al., 1990). Therefore, results of BA formation in laboratory media will not imply the similar behaviour in food systems. Hence, careful screening of probiotic LAB at the level of a strain and in the particular food system should be taken into consideration in order to improve the quality and safety of fermented foods.
They grew the strains in isolation, which seems to be an issue that they acknowledge in food.

I will post the article in the appropriate location.
 

ahmo

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I did this when I was having diarrhea, and used S Boulardii caps, which are often used for this purpose. It was effective. I was doing coffee enemas 1-2x/month. Now, I'm at the opposite extreme, and have been actively detoxxing, doing coffee enemas 4 days on, 2 days off. I initially emptied one of my other probi caps in, but I'm not self-testing + to add them, so I'm not.
 

adreno

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Anyone tried taking probiotics rectally?

I read that it can be better that orally.?
This can be good if you have SIBO, because you avoid feeding the bacteria in the short bowel. Also, the probiotics won't be killed by stomach acid.
 
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so is the best low hystamine probiotics what ahmo suggested?

anyone have any thoughts on prescript assist. I want something of good quality!!!
 

Wayne

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I'm woefully under-educated and under-informed on histamine, and all it's aspects. I did however, start taking Liposomal Vitamin C recently, in part because it's known to reduce histamine levels. In searching for a quick reference to this, I ran across an article that mentions iodine can also be responsible for high histamine levels in the body. So... here's a link: :)

Seven Fomenters of Brain Fog
 

Peyt

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Anyone tried taking probiotics rectally?

I read that it can be better that orally.?
be very careful with that... first of all, not all bacteria has a place in colon. Generally strains of Lacto belongs in Small Intestine and Bifido belongs in the large intestine.... so I hope you made sure to look at the label to see what kind of bacteria you are putting up there... putting what belongs in the small intestine in the large intestine will cause new problems!