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Results of my experiments placing various gut health supplements in special colon-targeted enteric capsules

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
Summary: the basic idea of this thread is that ME/CFS patients might consider experimenting with homemade shellac-coated capsules, which act as enteric capsules that do not open in the stomach, and instead deliver their supplement contents to the colon.

ME/CFS patients may have issues in their colon (like leaky gut, dysbiosis, viral infections, IBS, etc), so directly delivering supplements to the colon by means of shellac-coated capsules may offer opportunities to improve health.


I've had some interesting results with placing supplements that are beneficial for bowel health in colon-targeted capsules. It's easy to make your own colon-targeted capsules at home, just by coating regular capsules with shellac.

The shellac coating stops the capsule opening in the stomach (as shellac is resistant to stomach acids), and the capsule will only open and release its contents when further down the intestinal tract. You can buy food grade shellac online (often called confectionary glaze), and make your own colon-targeted capsules at home in the way described in this post.

Most supplements that you take are absorbed in the stomach or the small intestine, so do not make it to the large intestine (colon). Thus any benefits these supplements may have for the gut and the gut lining may not be conferred to the colon. But by coating your capsules with shellac, the capsules will only release their contents further along the digestive tract, so the contents may then be able to reach the colon.


I've been trying out supplements known to be good for the health of the intestines and for leaky gut, and placing these supplements in shellac-coated capsules, in the hope they will benefit the colon.

I've tried supplements like glutamine, N-acetyl glucosamine, zinc, vitamin A and probiotics in shellac-coated capsules. These are all supplements I have generally found well-tolerated and beneficial.

But strangely, when I take these supplements in colon-targeted capsules, they appear to cause major adverse effects for me, in terms of a temporary exacerbation mental health symptoms. This symptom exacerbation I imagine might be caused by the supplements transiently worsening inflammation in the colon.

When I take these same supplements in regular capsules, I have no problems at all with them. The adverse effects only appear when they are delivered to the colon. So you definitely get different effects when you deliver a supplement into the colon.

For example, taking 5 grams of glutamine powder normally gives me a very slight increase in energy; but every time I took just 1 gram of glutamine in a shellac-coated capsule, it triggered some anxiety and other mental health symptoms.

N-acetyl glucosamine was far worse: I find NAG has good anti-anxiety effects when taken normally; but when placed in a shellac capsule, it caused some really horrible mental health side effects for 24 hours or so.

The only supplement that I did not get adverse effects from when coated with shellac was probiotic capsules.



My interpretation of these results is that there may be something amiss in my colon, perhaps in terms of a dysbiosis or leaky gut, and so when these supplements reach the colon, conceivably they may temporarily worsen the situation, thereby increasing gut inflammation and triggering mental symptoms. For example, glutamine is known to boost the gut immune system, so when it reaches the colon, it may ramp up the immune attack on dysbiotic bad bacteria, temporarily causing some Herx effects.

But the very fact that I get these adverse effects suggests that there might be something amiss in the colon. If the colon were healthy, I would not expect to get such strong adverse effects.

So if whatever the issue I have in the colon can be fixed, it may improve health.

Note that I doubt if other ME/CFS patients would get these mental health side effects from trying colon-targeted supplements. I am very susceptible to mental health adverse effects from drugs and supplements, and get similar side effects from the intestine-targeted antibiotic rifaximin, even in tiny doses. So I think these mental health side effects are just idiosyncratic; nevertheless, their appearance in some susceptible to like may be an indicator that something is amiss in the colon in ME/CFS.



Several researchers believe that ME/CFS may arise from dysbiosis in the colon; and if this is the case, then colon-targeted supplements could be effective for ME/CFS.

We know that bacteria overgrowth in the small intestine (SIBO) causes ME/CFS-like symptoms such as substantial fatigue; and antibacterial herbs which target the small intestine can often be beneficial for SIBO, and reduce fatigue. So it is also possible that bacteria overgrowth in the large intestine (dysbiosis) may be causing symptoms such as fatigue.

Shellac coating gives us the tools to target any issues in the colon that might be underpinning ME/CFS.



There are many supplement that one could try in shellac-coated capsules. For example:

Sodium bicarbonate in a shellac capsule — when this reaches the colon, its potent antifungal effects might be beneficial for any Candida overgrowth.

Iodine in a shellac capsule — iodine has anti-microbial effects.

Oregano oil (and other antibacterial herbs) in a shellac capsule — has anti-microbial effects.

Glutamine in a shellac capsule — glutamine is considered one of the best leaky gut healing supplements.

Colostrum / IgG supplements — known to be effective for leaky gut. Only 3 to 20% of IgG survives the passage through the GI tract. Ref: 1

Other good leaky gut supplements listed in this post.

N-acetyl cysteine in a shellac capsule — NAC is a potent biofilm disrupter.

Probiotics in a shellac capsule — this should increase the potency of any probiotic capsule, as normally a substantial percentage of the bacteria in the capsule is destroyed by stomach acids.

Antivirals — if ME/CFS patients have an enterovirus or cytomegalovirus ongoing infection in their colon, antivirals which are delivered directly to the colon might have a strong effect against these infections.



As an alternative to making your own shellac-coated capsules, you can also buy ready-made enteric coated capsules called DRcaps (delayed release capsules).
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,863
Location
Alberta
perhaps in terms of a dysbiosis or leaky gut,
It doesn't need to be either of those disorders; just changing some molecular ratios could throw off normal responses. Dropping a CPU's voltage would result in slower operation, and errors if it was low enough. Raising it would allow faster operation (overclocking), but again, too much could damage it. There are all sorts of feedback loops in our digestive system, and raising the level of a good (for healthy people who don't have enough of it) nutrient will not necessarily provide a good response.

If something in our gut isn't working properly, then intentionally changing the ratios could help--or harm. Without knowing exactly how our guts work and what is wrong, it's up to experimentation to figure out what might help.

How much of prebiotics are digested before reaching the colon? I had the impression that some molecules, such as fermentable fibre, reached the colon more or less unaffected.

I haven't checked deeply into it, but I wouldn't call bicarbonate a potent antifungal. It does reduce growth (at high concentrations), maybe by its unfavourable pH for those strains, but it's not actively killing the cells the way copper or organic antifungal agents would. At the required concentration, it would probably hamper growth of good microbes too, causing potential harm. If you want to treat a fungal infection, I think a targeted antifungal (doesn't harm bacteria) would be safer.
 

Faith2007

Senior Member
Messages
131
Location
Montana, USA
Not sure if this will help, but my CFIDS doc has had me on the antibiotic Nystatin 2 x a day for years due to concerns that since I am immune deficient, my immune system can't control my yeast growth properly. She said the yeast can get serious and spread internally through the body. I'm sorta following a diet that helps with that, though, too. A few years back I was tested for Candida, and it was negative.

To counteract all the gut killoff, my doc has me taking a heavy probiotic, which is generally whatever refrigerated kind, before bed daily.

She did diagnose me with IBS, but I don't really have any discomfort, except for my hiatal hernia at times.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
How much of prebiotics are digested before reaching the colon? I had the impression that some molecules, such as fermentable fibre, reached the colon more or less unaffected.

I haven't checked deeply into it, but I wouldn't call bicarbonate a potent antifungal.

Good point about the prebiotics. Yes I think you are right that these are not digested or absorbed in the stomach or small intestine, so will reach the colon intact. So there may not be any advantage to placing prebiotics in colon-targeted capsules. I will remove prebiotics from my post.

I believe bicarbonate is a pretty potent antifungal, at least if used topically. I've used it topically to successfully treat skin fungal infections which did not respond well to standard antifungal creams from the pharmacy. You have to use bicarbonate very sparingly on the skin though, just the lightest dusting of powder, otherwise it will cause red skin irritation if used in a more concentrated way.
 
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MaximilianKohler

Senior Member
Messages
111
But the very fact that I get these adverse effects suggests that there might be something amiss in the colon.
To me, it seems more like the adverse effects stem from bypassing the required digestive process.

My interpretation of these results is that there may be something amiss in my colon, perhaps in terms of a dysbiosis or leaky gut
Of course there is. Your health is poor and thus you have a dysbiotic gut microbiome. It's strange to me that this seems novel to you. You've been discussing the gut microbiome and FMT for many years. But from some of your other comments, it seems that your understanding of the gut microbiome is still poor.

Several researchers believe that ME/CFS may arise from dysbiosis in the colon
It is erroneous to single out the colon. The colon is merely one segment of a complex and interconnected ecosystem that impacts and regulates the entire body.

We know that bacteria overgrowth in the small intestine (SIBO) causes ME/CFS-like symptoms such as substantial fatigue
As noted above, this notion is based on a poor understanding of the gut microbiome. Moderator note: Link removed due to self-advertising
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
Of course there is. Your health is poor and thus you have a dysbiotic gut microbiome. It's strange to me that this seems novel to you.

I am not restricting my thinking to a narrow view that only considers the bacterial microbiome.

When I say my results suggest something may be amiss with my colon, I gave dysbiosis and leaky gut as examples of such dysfunction; but I am not limiting myself to just those two. A colon might become dysfunctional in a number of ways; the dysfunction does not necessarily have to revolve around the gut bacterial microbiome.

We can consider dysfunctions such as viral infection in the colon. ME/CFS associated viruses such as enterovirus and cytomegalovirus are known to be able to infect the colon, and Dr Chia has detected enterovirus in the colon tissues in ME/CFS patients.

Indeed, bacterial dysbiosis conceivably might only be a secondary downstream effect of a primary cause of a viral colonic infection; a persistent virus in the colon may throw out the immune system so that it can no longer hold gut bacterial populations in check.

Furthermore, both enterovirus and cytomegalovirus are known to increase intestinal permeability, so then this might allow bacterial toxins or partially digested proteins to leak into the bloodstream (even if there were no bacterial dysbiosis, since plenty of toxins are present in the colon even with a balanced microbiome).

Alternatively, a leaky gut and the microbiome may have no bearing at on ME/CFS, and all the symptoms of this illness might arise when the vagus nerve detects a chronic viral infection in the colon and in other gastrointestinal areas, and signals this to the brain, which in turn activates sickness behaviour (which has very similar symptoms to ME/CFS). Sickness behaviour is always activated whenever the vagus nerve detects an infection in the body.

Other gut dysfunctions might involve food allergies causing immune reactions in the gut.

There could be autoimmune conditions present in the colon. IBS-D for example has been linked to vinculin autoantibodies that seem to cause nervous system damage in the gut.

Any number of things could be wrong with the colon.



But whatever might be amiss in the colon, creating shellac coated capsules may be a useful tool to target the colon with therapeutic drugs or supplements. That is the basic idea of this thread: that ME/CFS patients might like to experiment with shellac coated capsules to deliver therapies to the colon.



It is erroneous to single out the colon. The colon is merely one segment of a complex and interconnected ecosystem that impacts and regulates the entire body.

I am afraid you are wrong there: doctors will often single out a specific dysfunction part of the digestive tract for treatment. For example, if you have SIBO, then the small intestine needs to be treated.
 
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serafim

Senior Member
Messages
106
@Hip i understand the rationale behind taking probiotics in enteric coated capsules, but why would you do this with vitamins and all this other stuff? it’s no wonder you’re having side effects, these kinds of supplements aren’t meant to make it into your colon undigested. delivering baking soda straight into your colon will mess up the pH and surely negatively affect more than just the fungi
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
i understand the rationale behind taking probiotics in enteric coated capsules, but why would you do this with vitamins and all this other stuff?

I took glutamine for example because it generally considered one of the best leaky gut healing supplements. We know that a leaky gut can exist in the small intestine or in the colon. In the case of the small intestine, oral glutamine may help; but regular glutamine will not reach the colon, because it is digested in the small intestine. So in this case, shellac-coated glutamine capsules may be useful.

NAG, zinc, vitamin A are also known to soothe gut inflammation and improve the health of the intestinal lining, so they may be beneficial to the colon if taken in shellac-coated colon-targeted capsules.



I have been thinking of trying some enterovirus antiviral drugs such as interferon in colon-targeted capsules.

If there were an enterovirus infection in the colon in ME/CFS, then maybe targeting that might be helpful. Dr Chia found enterovirus in the colon, see this video at 14:35.

Nearly all of the supplements and drugs which have demonstrated anti-enterovirus effect in vitro turn out to be too weak in vivo, because in the body you cannot obtain the high concentrations used in the in vitro studies.

But if you place one of these antivirals into a colon-targeted capsule, then when it hits the colon, may be more concentrated there, especially if the antiviral is poorly absorbed. The volume of the colon is just 2 litre (compared to the 45 litres of fluids in the whole body), so an antiviral drug which remains in the colon may become more concentrated and thus more effective.

Interferon might be particularly effective in the colon, as this drug is not systemically absorbed, so will remain concentrated in the colon.

An IgG supplement from bovine colostrum might be more effective in shellac-coated capsules too. Most of the IgG is destroyed during passage though the gastrointestinal tract, so most does not reach the bacteria in the colon. But by shellac coating your IgG capsules, it may make them more effective.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
How can you confirm they didn't get ingested until they reached the colon? @Hip

I cannot really know for sure, but the fact that I get very different results with these shellac-coated supplements indicates that the capsules are opening much further along the digestive tract. The capsules might not necessarily wait to open in the colon; they may open slightly before the colon, in the latter part of the small intestine. But they are definitely opening further along the digestive tract, which we can deduce from the very different effects I get.

For example, NAG is one of my favourite supplements, and I regularly take it for its anti-anxiety effects, and the general improvement in mental health it provides me. But when I placed the same dose in a shellac-coated capsule, it caused really horrible adverse mental health effects, so horrible that I will never take shellac-coated NAG again. So that can only be because the NAG is getting to parts of the digestive tract that it does not normally reach.

When I did some experiments (see pictures in this post) seeing how long shellac-coated vitamin B2 capsules would take to open when placed in small jars in vinegar, they took about 4 hours to open. I understand that it takes food about 2.5 to 3 hours to transit the small intestine. So if these capsules are opening after 4 hours, that should be when they are in or near the colon.

I believe shellac coating is used by the pharmaceutical industry to make enteric coated capsules which are acid resistant and do not open in the stomach, but only open further along the digestive tract.
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,863
Location
Alberta
That is the basic idea of this thread: that ME/CFS patients might like to experiment with shellac coated capsules to deliver therapies to the colon.
I second that. There were a few things, such as butyrate that are supposed to affect colonic health, but eating some butter isn't a valid test, since the butyrate probably doesn't reach the colon. The next time I face that problem, I'll mix up some shellac and give coated capsules a try.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,467
I took a number of enteric coated supplements some time ago, and since I have some version of IBS-d, I observed that the supplements often emerged undigested at the other end. They were never opening up.

My digestion is moving too rapidly, perhaps.

"d" isn't really the right term, as all these colon/bowel issues are complicated.

currently I"m taking ellagic acid which has slowed down this transit time quite a bit. Its the best n-=1 thing I accidentally ran into.
 

ruben

Senior Member
Messages
312
Not sure if this will help, but my CFIDS doc has had me on the antibiotic Nystatin 2 x a day for years due to concerns that since I am immune deficient, my immune system can't control my yeast growth properly. She said the yeast can get serious and spread internally through the body. I'm sorta following a diet that helps with that, though, too. A few years back I was tested for Candida, and it was negative.

To counteract all the gut killoff, my doc has me taking a heavy probiotic, which is generally whatever refrigerated kind, before bed daily.

She did diagnose me with IBS, but I don't really have any discomfort, except for my hiatal hernia at times.
I've been there, done the Nystatin thing. Never did anything for me and that was in the 1980s.
 

MaximilianKohler

Senior Member
Messages
111
There seem to be a few more misunderstandings in Hip's reply to me. And overall I feel like it largely ignored my points.
To clarify, there is some debate on whether viruses are “alive" or classified as "microorganisms”, but they are firmly considered to be part of the “gut microbiome”. So signaling them out as separate is not correct.

Alternatively, a leaky gut and the microbiome may have no bearing at on ME/CFS
This is not correct, and represents a lack of knowledge/understanding of the gut microbiome. There is already a large body of evidence showing the gut microbiome influences intestinal permeability, CFS, and the vagus nerve. And disturbances to any of these have wide-ranging impacts on the whole body, including fatigue and brain function.

Moderator note: Link removed due to self-advertising

Again, I'm quite puzzled to see statements like this coming from someone who's been writing about the gut microbiome and FMT for many years.
Alternatively, a leaky gut and the microbiome may have no bearing at on ME/CFS, and all the symptoms of this illness might arise when the vagus nerve detects a chronic viral infection in the colon and in other gastrointestinal areas, and signals this to the brain, which in turn activates sickness behaviour (which has very similar symptoms to ME/CFS). Sickness behaviour is always activated whenever the vagus nerve detects an infection in the body.
Again, you're singling out the colon for some odd reason that doesn't seem to make sense. The colon is not separate from the rest of the gut microbiome.

In addition to the links above, you can search here https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=vagus nerve gut microbiome, to understand that the vagus nerve is simply a method by which the gut microbiome influences the rest of the body. The gut microbiome is the crux of the issue.

I have also mentioned this before in another recent thread, that while many things (such as your example of a viral infection) can trigger gut dysbiosis, immune system problems, etc., overwhelmingly the evidence shows that restoring eubiosis with FMT can correct the problem. You can look through the hundreds of FMT studies in the wiki for evidence of this.

Other gut dysfunctions might involve food allergies causing immune reactions in the gut.
Again, you have the cause-effect mixed up. Moderator note: Link removed due to self-advertising

There could be autoimmune conditions present in the colon.
I'm not sure that's a valid notion. Moderator note: Link removed due to self-advertising

A little note:
When I came back to the forum recently someone had wondered where I’d been. This is a good example. I find my experiences to be very strange and useless. Most of us have cognitive deficits to some degree, but I find it very common that people are unable to review the science I share, and learn from it. So I find people continuing to maintain poor understandings of issues, and I have to continually repeat the same things, and share the same scientific studies that people don’t seem to be able to learn from.

The "Science for ME" forum was one of the worst in this regard. It was overwhelmingly dominated by anti-science behaviors.

Maybe some cognitive deficits on my end are contributing to the situation too, but I haven’t identified it. Nor have I identified a solution to this issue, other than to improve people's function somehow...

EDIT: Oh, I should mention that the reason why this is a big problem is that it prevents the patient community from understanding the condition, and the most promising solutions, and then working together to obtain those solutions.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
This is not correct, and represents a lack of knowledge/understanding of the gut microbiome.

Since the cause of ME/CFS remains unknown, it is scientifically wrong to make the claim that the microbiome is involved in ME/CFS pathophysiology. Researchers have hypothesised that the microbiome might be involved in ME/CFS, and that is a reasonable theory. But we do not actually know whether the microbiome plays a role in ME/CFS aetiology, because the cause of ME/CFS is a mystery.

People who are disciplined in the scientific deployment of language will never present a hypothesis or a theory as an established scientific truth.

Implying the microbiome is involved in ME/CFS pathophysiology, when we don't actually know whether it is, is failing to use language in a disciplined scientific fashion.


Microbiome research has become fashionable in the last decade or so. But just because it is fashionable, don't assume that means the microbiome is behind all diseases, as some microbiome researchers would have you believe.


I am very interested in infectious pathogen theories of chronic diseases; and many chronic diseases have been linked to pathogens such as viruses or bacteria. But in these cases, the pathogens are found in the diseased organs, not in the gut.

For example, in type 1 diabetes, coxsackievirus B4 infection is found in the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas. So you have to look into the pancreas, not the gut, to find out what is going on. Similarly, in these new theories that Alzheimer's can be caused by herpes simplex infection of the brain, researchers are looking into the brain to find these herpes infections, not necessarily the gut (unless the disease itself is located in the gut).

I am not saying that gut research is not interesting; but it would be foolish to try to understand chronic diseases by only looking at what happens in the gut.



overwhelmingly the evidence shows that restoring eubiosis with FMT can correct the problem

All the evidence I have seen suggests that any benefits from FMT for ME/CFS are usually temporary and transitory. Dr Kenny De Meirleir, who is quite gut focused with his ME/CFS treatment, nevertheless found that the benefits of FMT disappear after a few months. This is why he stopped performing FMTs on his ME/CFS patients.

Then you have people like Thomas Borody in Australia, who published a study claiming his bacteriotherapy approach (similar to FMT) permanently cured almost all the ME/CFS patients he treated. So he claims to have found the elusive cure for ME/CFS that millions of patients are waiting for. But strangely enough, his clinic do not offer bacteriotherapy to ME/CFS patients. Odd that he claims to have the cure for ME/CFS, but does not provide it.



Again, you're singling out the colon for some odd reason that doesn't seem to make sense. The colon is not separate from the rest of the gut microbiome.

I don't think you understand the ideas involved in this thread. Let me give you an example that may help explain:

Are you aware that with leaky gut, this can occur in the small intestine, the large intestine, or both. If it occurs in the colon, leaky gut supplements such as glutamine will not be able to reach the colon, as they will be digested in the small intestine before they get a chance to work on the colon.

But if you place glutamine in an enteric capsule that only opens when it reaches the colon, you will be able to deliver glutamine to the colon, which might help improve a leaky colon.

Thus for people with a leaky colon, shellac-coated capsules provides a tool that can deliver therapeutic supplements to the colon.

If your problem is not in the colon; if you have SIBO, for example, which involves issues in the small intestine, then this tool may not be of use to you.
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,227
You can look through the hundreds of FMT studies in the wiki for evidence of this.

Rather than look through hundreds of studies, we have members here who have gotten FMT (can't remember which ones offhand). As I recall, some reported benefits - but they didn't last even with repeated sessions of FMT. I believe they were done in the UK, but as a USA member I don't remember the details since it wasn't accessible.

Have you cured your ME/CFS and IBS now with FMT?

Since the cause of ME/CFS remains unknown, it is scientifically wrong to make the claim that the microbiome is involved in ME/CFS pathophysiology. Researchers have hypothesised that the microbiome might be involved in ME/CFS, and that is a reasonable theory. But we do not actually know whether the microbiome plays a role in ME/CFS aetiology, because the cause of ME/CFS is a mystery.

This.

I don't even like using the term ME/CFS, because it's an arbitrary set of symptoms describing a disorder, not a known disease with a well described etiology. ME/CFS might be one disease, or it might be 20 diseases. We have no definitive labs, no clear understanding.

All the evidence I have seen suggests that any benefits from FMT for ME/CFS are usually temporary and transitory. Dr Kenny De Meirleir, who is quite gut focused with his ME/CFS treatment, nevertheless found that the benefits of FMT disappear after a few months. This is why he stopped performing FMTs on his ME/CFS patients.

This is also my general understanding. As benefits are reported, it seems like this is on the right track - but the benefits are often temporary. This is similar to antibiotics, which may imply that while the gut is heavily involved, we still don't know how to modify it permanently in the appropriate ways.

Sometimes @Hip 's experiments seem remarkable to me, but I'm glad that he does them and reports them. I often search here for some crazy idea and find others have already pursued it. I imagine I'd be healthier if I paid more attention to this forum earlier, but I was confident I wouldn't become like the others here and refused to pace and shut down my life.

Oh well.
 

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,176
One experiment that might be worthwhile is a glazed capsule with nothing in it. However the Shellac is broken down in the colon may contribute to the mental health side effects you are getting so its worth doing a non active ingredient experiment to see if that is indeed the case, it probably needs to contain something but we want it not processed by colon bacteria. There is a chance the delivery mechanism is the issue rather than that its contents or a combination of the two together and doing the same ingredient via an enema wouldn't cause the same problem.

I will have a go at this and see if I notice anything good or bad it seems promising as a way to get this where the likely problem is and potentially less problematic and more diverse than what we can currently do with prebiotics.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,998
One experiment that might be worthwhile is a glazed capsule with nothing in it. However the Shellac is broken down in the colon may contribute to the mental health side effects you are getting so its worth doing a non active ingredient experiment to see if that is indeed the case, it probably needs to contain something but we want it not processed by colon bacteria.

That might be worth trying. Though in a way, I have already done this, in that I found glutamine filled shellac capsules did not cause too much trouble, whereas NAG filled capsules did.

Glutamine filled shellac capsules caused some anxiety when taken on an empty stomach, but produced no mental side effects when taken an hour or two after a meal. This anxiety was nothing particularly unpleasant, and it would be feasible to continue with glutamine if I took the capsules with a meal.

But when I tried N-acetyl glucosamine (NAG) in a shellac-filled capsule, this triggered some really horrible mental symptoms within a few hours of taking the capsule, which lasted 48 hours.


This is strange, because NAG is considered beneficial for the gut: NAG stimulates the production of mucin, which supposedly helps prevent toxins from passing through the intestinal lining.

So it is odd NAG could have caused such horrible psychiatric side effects. But of course NAG might well be doing something beneficial in my colon, and these side effects might just be due to some temporary Herx response, or a temporary increase in inflammation in the gut.

If I took NAG for longer, some benefits might accrue. But in my case, the mental health side effects preclude another attempt.


It does not seem that likely that shellac itself would produce side effects, as it's sold as an edible confectionary glaze, that you use in the kitchen to coat cakes and chocolates to make them shiny.
 
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MaximilianKohler

Senior Member
Messages
111
The reply I received demonstrated the phenomenon I described perfectly. I give up.
Rather than look through hundreds of studies, we have members here who have gotten FMT (can't remember which ones offhand). As I recall, some reported benefits - but they didn't last even with repeated sessions of FMT. I believe they were done in the UK, but as a USA member I don't remember the details since it wasn't accessible.

Have you cured your ME/CFS and IBS now with FMT?
I have discussed the reasons for this at length, and could share educational links, as I did previously, but it appears to be a complete waste of time since the vast majority of people continue to demonstrate a complete lack of ability to learn from the scientific material they are presented with.

This is also my general understanding. As benefits are reported, it seems like this is on the right track - but the benefits are often temporary. This is similar to antibiotics, which may imply that while the gut is heavily involved, we still don't know how to modify it permanently in the appropriate ways.
Nope. This, some of your other statements, and most of Hip's recent statements are simply factually incorrect. And I linked to plenty of supporting evidence that was not reviewed and understood, much less addressed.

I come back here after years and people are still running in the same circles, chasing their tails. Same goes for every patient community of most chronic conditions.
 

almost

Senior Member
Messages
146
I come back here after years and people are still running in the same circles
So it appears are you.

This is a shame, as I'm actually quite interested in this topic. Rather than throw long lists of links at us, why not provide a cogent, succinct argument we can digest here? I think you forget or ignore that one of the conditions this complex puts on people is the reduction, sometimes drastic, to process information. I have actually crawled through a lot of your wiki and your related site, but nothing there brings it together.

Have you cured your ME/CFS and IBS now with FMT?
This is a very simple yes/not yes question, yet you avoided answering it amidst the complaining. I must take that as 'not yes,' unless you state otherwise. If you don't believe in your product, why should we? If the answer to the question is yes, please provide details. Thank you.
 
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