Reputable lab in UK for stool test? (referral not required)

[Wolfcub]

Please does anyone know of a reputable lab in UK which would do a comprehensive stool analysis, and which does not need a physican/GP referral?

I tried to find one today but some of the websites I didn't like the look of, and all the "good" looking ones insisted on referral.


Even RedLab in Belgium requires a physician referral.

@Hip I am tagging you in case you have any ideas?

 

[Hip]

@Hip I am tagging you in case you have any ideas?

The various Genova Diagnostics UK comprehensive stool analysis I believe are good, but I think require a GP referral. I think most GPs would be happy to provide the referral, if you are paying for it.

One way to get around the requirement to get a GP referral for Genova Diagnostics to use the practitioner code provided by Thyroid UK when ordering your Genova Diagnostics test. The results will then get sent to Thyroid UK, and then you just ask Thyroid UK to email you your results. I think they usually handle Genova thyroid tests, but I imagine they might accommodate you if you wanted to have a comprehensive stool analysis.


Genova Diagnostics now has three comprehensive stool analysis tests. Their latest one is called the GI Effects, and @bertiedog recommended it in this post.

 

[ljimbo423]

Please does anyone know of a reputable lab in UK which would do a comprehensive stool analysis, and which does not need a physican/GP referral?

I hope you find a lab and the stool analysis gives you something to treat.

I had a stool analysis done a long time ago and it found a very antibiotic resistant bacteria overgrown called Pseudomonas Aeruginosa. That bacteria causes many different types of infections that are often extremely difficult to treat, even with combinations of powerful antibiotics.

I now wonder if it's still overgrown in my gut because it is so antibiotic resistant. Even though I've taken a lot of antibacterial herbs, for a few years, I'm feeling now like they might not be enough and this overgrowth or infection is still causing leaky gut etc.

A stool analysis won't pick up SIBO though. The test they usually use for SIBO, a breath test, is often not very accurate at all. The lactulose breath test is the one used most often and is also the least accurate. The glucose breath test is more accurate but still not very accurate at all.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the sensitivity and specificity of the lactulose hydrogen breath test in detecting SIBO has been reported to be only 68% and 44%, and for the glucose breath test 62% and 83%.

Source

In medical diagnosis, test sensitivity is the ability of a test to correctly identify those with the disease (true positive rate), whereas test specificity is the ability of the test to correctly identify those without the disease (true negative rate).

Source

 

[Wolfcub]

One way to get around the requirement to get a GP referral for Genova Diagnostics to use the practitioner code provided by Thyroid UK when ordering your Genova Diagnostics test. The results will then get sent to Thyroid UK, and then you just ask Thyroid UK to email you your results. I think they usually handle Genova thyroid tests, but I imagine they might accommodate you if you wanted to have a comprehensive stool analysis.

That's a good idea @Hip Thanks. I wouldn't have thought of that if I lived 1000 years !

I had a stool analysis done a long time ago and it found a very antibiotic resistant bacteria overgrown called Pseudomonas Aeruginosa. That bacteria causes many different types of infections that are often extremely difficult to treat, even with combinations of powerful antibiotics.

I now wonder if it's still overgrown in my gut because it is so antibiotic resistant. Even though I've taken a lot of antibacterial herbs, for a few years, I'm feeling now like they might not be enough and this overgrowth or infection is still causing leaky gut etc.

Might it be worth re-testing @ljimbo423 ? At least you would be able to see if the "numbers have fallen" since your last analysis, which may give you a clue about how your herbal regime could be helping possibly.

A stool analysis won't pick up SIBO though. The test they usually use for SIBO, a breath test, is often not very accurate at all. The lactulose breath test is the one used most often and is also the least accurate. The glucose breath test is more accurate but still not very accurate at all.

Yes I know. The "gold standard" test for SIBO is the highly invasive one There are lots of false positives and false negatives so I hear with the breath tests.

 

[ljimbo423]

Might it be worth re-testing @ljimbo423 ? At least you would be able to see if the "numbers have fallen" since your last analysis, which may give you a clue about how your herbal regime could be helping possibly.

I would love to but my functional medicine doctor left the area and it's very difficult to find one that takes my insurance. He actually wasn't very good but he did order a lot of tests.

The only test that was off was my gut analysis. Which found quote "very severe dysbiosis".

 

[bertiedog]

Please does anyone know of a reputable lab in UK which would do a comprehensive stool analysis, and which does not need a physican/GP referral?

I tried to find one today but some of the websites I didn't like the look of, and all the "good" looking ones insisted on referral.


Even RedLab in Belgium requires a physician referral.

@Hip I am tagging you in case you have any ideas?

I can order any of the Genova tests for anybody in the UK at cost price because I have practitioner status and I am happy to pass that onto anybody who is dealing with this shit illness. They have just revised the GI Effects test and there are various add-ons. I ordered zonulin as an add=on when I did the test this March.

The last test was very helpful to me as it showed up mild dysbiosis which I already knew about but also I had too high methane-producing archae so I have been working on this since having the test with some success. It also explains my tendency towards constipation which can be quite severe at times. The zonulin came back at quite a low level so it looks as if I don't have a particularly leaky gut which is good to know but I don't really know how reliable the zonulin test is to be honest.

I researched probiotics that showed a beneficial effect on excess methane producing archae and have been taking these for about 6 weeks now and there is a definite improvement but I think the dysbiosis persists. In my case this wouldn't be helped by being steroid dependent.

If you would like me to give you some prices just send a PM.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

The zonulin came back at quite a low level so it looks as if I don't have a particularly leaky gut which is good to know but I don't really know how reliable the zonulin test is to be honest.

As I understand it, they test for zonulin antibodies in the stool to determine if zonulin levels are high. Steroids suppress these antibodies according to this quote below. This might explain the quite low levels of zonulin found in your stool sample.

CONS of LPS, Occludin, Zonulin, Actomyosin Protein Antibody Testing

• Antibody measurement is influenced and suppressed by the use of Steroids. The patient has to have been off of oral and topical steroids for approximately 60 days prior to testing.

Source

 

[bertiedog]

Steroids suppress these antibodies according to this quote below. This might explain the quite low levels of zonulin found in your stool sample.

Thank you for that, very interesting. I have found that taking the probiotics specifically to lower methane has helped the dysbiosis a lot but I still do feel it from time to time but it isn't very bothersome unless I eat a curry which is a bit too strong or anything with chilli.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

I have found that taking the probiotics specifically to lower methane has helped the dysbiosis a lot

Could you share the type of probiotics you are using to lower methane? I'm going to be switching my probiotic soon and am looking for a good alternative.

 

[bertiedog]

Jim I will get back to you with the specific bacteria that lower methane. I have had a busy day so am rather tired right now. I think its only about 5 specific ones but will check it out tomorrow. I know I have got it all written down in my little black book!

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

Jim I will get back to you with the specific bacteria that lower methane. I have had a busy day so am rather tired right now. I think its only about 5 specific ones but will check it out tomorrow. I know I have got it all written down in my little black book!

Pam

Thanks! No rush.

 

[bertiedog]

@Jimbo4

Could you share the type of probiotics you are using to lower methane? I'm going to be switching my probiotic soon and am looking for a good alternative.

I haven't got the name of a specific product apart from one but the probiotics mentioned with regard to methane and archaea from the Functional Gut Health Clinic are B Lactis HN019 which speeds motility and L Reuteri DSM 17938. The only one I could find for the L Reuteri is a liquid for babies and it is Reuteri Gotas 10 ml. It is made by Bio Gaia and I guess it would be difficult for you to get this in the US but maybe there are alternative sources. It is stated on the website of the Functional Gut Health Clinic that L Reuteri reduces methane. Another one mentioned was B Infantis B5624 which is in Align.

The person who runs this clinic says she has treated hundred of clients for excess methane and the best herbs are Allicin, Oregano, Neem plus flax seeds, berries, turmeric, ginger, cinnamon, quinoa, green tea, brown rice and all helpful and should also reduce LPS which can be a big problem.

She usually just treats with 2 herbs at a time for a couple of months and then rotates them. I have been taking cinnamon daily and a low dose combo of herbs but am still waiting for the Oregano I ordered as I find that very helpful for gut issues.

Hope this is helpful.

Pam

 

[Wolfcub]

I can order any of the Genova tests for anybody in the UK at cost price because I have practitioner status and I am happy to pass that onto anybody who is dealing with this shit illness.

@bertiedog That would be super, and so good of you. I just have to decide which test I need, then I will PM you. I just did a FIT test (Fecal Immunochemical Test) for basic occult haemoglobin, which came back negative thankfully. So it's on to the next one now

 

[Wolfcub]

I will PM you in the next few days probably @bertiedog
I think the GI Effects Comprehensive with Genova Diagnostics is the one I want.
My memory is messed up tonight, but I think that also includes the FC (calprotectin) test which I do want, so need a fresh mind tomorrow to check.
I have spent literally hours this evening researching the limits of the Fecal Immunochemical Test (FIT)
From what I read in a few scientific reports and articles, FIT actually does look promising for detection of intestinal inflammation too, though not without its limits. So I'd like to back that up with an FC test.

Blahhhh..... wouldn't it be nice to think nice thoughts instead of having to think about poop for hours on end??
I am now balancing that out with some smooth classical music before bed (and hopefully NOT dreams abot poop!

 

[bertiedog]

My memory is messed up tonight, but I think that also includes the FC (calprotectin) test which I do want, so need a fresh mind tomorrow to check.

Yes you are right the GI Effects does test Calprotectin levels. You probably already know that if you go to gdx.net you can search for all the tests and what analytes are tested.

Hope you feel better but no rush!

Pam

 

[Wolfcub]

(and hopefully NOT dreams abot poop!

Quoting myself......weird or what?
I did dream about poop There were two really nice friendly dogs at my gate, and when they had gone I noticed something/someone had put a styrofoam container on top of my outside mailbox...and guess what was in it? Yep doggy poop! I was in the process of moving it p.d. quick before the postman came....when I woke up I did however, wake up laughing.

 

[ljimbo423]

Quoting myself......weird or what?
I did dream about poop There were two really nice friendly dogs at my gate, and when they had gone I noticed something/someone had put a styrofoam container on top of my outside mailbox...and guess what was in it? Yep doggy poop! I was in the process of moving it p.d. quick before the postman came....when I woke up I did however, wake up laughing.

Maybe there's a hidden meaning it that dream for FMT. Although I don't think dog poop would be your first choice! HA!

 

[Judee]

@Wolfcub, I don't know if this test is available to you but he gives some information about it on this page: https://cfsremission.com/2016/11/07/microbiome-test-in-europe-kyberkompakt-pro/

Edit: I realized that he doesn't have the website listed. Here it is: https://instytut-mikroekologii.pl/produkt/kyber-kompakt-pro/
Unfortunately, I could not find it in English. When I translated some of it using Google translate, I could not find a correct document format to attach here.

Here is some of the translated text: (sorry it's so long)
HomeProductsFecal TestsIntestinal microbiotaKyberKompakt Pro

KyberKompakt Pro

640.00 PLN
Shipping cost: PLN 18

Installment from: PLN 21.99

KyberKompakt Pro is the most comprehensive study of intestinal microbiota and fungi in the digestive tract. In addition to the basic indicator bacteria, the number of bacteria feeding the enterocytes, i.e. those affecting the condition of the intestinal epithelium, as well as the presence or absence of the Clostridium difficile toxin strain and A / B toxins is also checked.
amount of KyberKompakt Pro
SKU: kyber-prakt-pro Category: Intestinal microbiota Tags: Allergy, Crohn's disease, Depression, Gastrointestinal discomfort, Overweight and obesity, Recurrent urogenital infections, Infertility, Permeable intestine, Rheumatoid arthritis, Acne, Ulcerative colitis

Description Indication for the test. Scope of the test. Test material. Test method. Preparation of the patient. Shipment of material. Contraindications Test results

KyberKompakt Pro is the most comprehensive study of intestinal microflora - bacteria and fungi in the digestive tract. Diagnostics are performed at the request of a specialist or patient.

Intestinal examination is intended for people who want to check if their intestinal tract has intestinal dysbiosis and introduce effective, targeted probiotic therapy.
By performing the KyberKompakt Pro bowel microflora test, you get:

qualitative and quantitative result of intestinal examination (bacteria and indicator fungi),
interpretation of the intestinal microflora test result with a detailed description of its current condition,
proposition of microbiological therapy selected individually to the result of the examination and the patient's state of health,
the possibility of consulting the result of the intestinal microflora examination with our specialist during free telephone consultations.

Examination of the intestines supports the body in the fight against many diseases and ailments

Intestinal dysbiosis, or bacterial imbalance in the intestine, can underlie many diseases. Science is increasingly pointing to the relationship between dysregulation of the number and quality of intestinal microorganisms, among others, with inflammatory diseases, e.g. autoimmune diseases (Hashimoto's disease, multiple sclerosis, albinism), depression, inflammatory bowel disease or atopic dermatitis. Intestinal dysbiosis is also a source of many ailments that reduce the comfort of life: flatulence, diarrhea, constipation, and abdominal pain. If you have been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome or struggling with a chronic disease - do the KyberKompakt Pro intestinal microflora examination and start using individualized microbiological therapy. Targeted probiotic therapy can be a support in the treatment and prevention of many diseases.

Remember, the price of testing the intestinal microflora contains not only the result of the test, made and signed by a laboratory diagnostician, but also specific recommendations for targeted probiotic therapy and the possibility of free consultation with our specialists (diagnostician, dietitian or midwife).

And some telephone numbers for them:
Opening hours
Monday - Wednesday: 9.00 a.m. - 3.00 p.m.
telephones
61 862 63 15
61 862 76 04
61 862 63 35
+48 538 325 843

Warsaw:
+48 504 421 420
information

 

[Wolfcub]

@Judee Thank you so much for writing all this out and thoroughly checking that website and test.

It's great information.

It seems something happened, quite suddenly with me, connected to Covid-19.
But when I cast my mind back, I also had GI upset, quite short-lived (about 5 days or so) 3-4 weeks into whatever that viral infection was I got that started the ME/CFS in March 2018.

Then my gut was fine ever since!
But issues began with Covid, and haven't resolved yet.
So I do wonder about GI epithelial cell involvement, as Covid is very nasty towards epithelial cells.

Also, another angle is possible dysautonomia (just learned literally 10 minutes ago!)

But that Polish lab sounds very good. Thank you.