Reprogramming mouse microbiomes leads to recovery from MS

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Looks very interresting. Did the mice actually have MS or was that just in their previous paper.

The aryl hydrocarbon receptor has been speculated to be involved in mecfs as well because of chemical sensitivities (or MCS).
 
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Hello, the paper mentions at the end "This receptor can easily be targeted with medications...", but they don't mention what medications. Any ideas? I couldn't find much...
 

Mary

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This is fascinating - and one thing I found very interesting is this mention of short-chain fatty acids:
This time around though, the study targeted the inflammation-causing AHR. When the researchers blocked it in the guts of mice, they found that the microbiome was able to produce compounds such as bile salts and short-chain fatty acids that made it difficult for the T cells to thrive. As a result, inflammation ramped down dramatically – to the point that the mice actually recovered from their disease.

I keep coming across a connection in ME/CFS with some defect or deficiency regarding short chain fatty acids . . .
 

Wishful

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I keep coming across a connection in ME/CFS with some defect or deficiency regarding short chain fatty acids . . .

Yes, but I'm not convinced that it's really significant. With all the dietary changes and supplements people take, if SCFA levels did make a difference, people would have noticed it. I've gone from a high-fibre diet to a nearly no-(fermentable)fibre diet .. and not noticed a difference in my ME symptoms, other than avoiding the worsening I now get from fibre. I didn't notice any problems from high or low fibre diets in the previous 20 or so years of my ME.

My guess is that for some PWME, low SCFA production could result in more inflammation, which would worsen ME symptoms, but supplementing them would only make a minor difference.

For experimenters, butter is a good source of butyrate, and for acetate, mix some baking soda with vinegar (= sodium acetate). The latter is a somewhat pleasant fizzy drink if you drink it immediately. Sodium or calcium propionate is used in commercial baking, so if you know of a suitable baker, they might be able to give you a sample. I don't feel like spending $60+ on a large container of something I expect to make me feel worse after the first teaspoon.
 

Mary

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With all the dietary changes and supplements people take, if SCFA levels did make a difference, people would have noticed it.
I wouldn't make this assumption. It seems that we may have an inability to properly use SFCA so supplementing with them might not make much of a difference if we can't properly use or metabolize them. And just maybe going at the problem from the microbiome as in this study might bypass or circumvent the road block or whatever the problem is with SCFA. I can't tell you exactly what i've read but SCFA keep coming up --
 

Wishful

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It seems that we may have an inability to properly use SFCA so supplementing with them might not make much of a difference if we can't properly use or metabolize them.

I'm just pointing out that there's been a lot of real-life experimentation with microbiome-altering changes, with no significant effects. Thus it's not as simple as "boosting SCFA levels in the gut will reduce symptoms". If the problem is with transport or usage, then the levels in the gut shouldn't be significant.

The article does indicate that the gut/immune/brain interaction is far from simple. Studies such as this are identifying links no one knew about before. The altered SCFA levels might be a sign of immune dysfunction, rather than a cause. Some people do improve after microbiome changes, but since that's not common, it's more likely an individual variation in the whole system that allows it to respond to changes. My individual variation is making me overly react to fibre, but I haven't heard anyone else report that problem. Radical changes in my microbiome (flushing out due to food poisoning) seems to be responsible for curing my type IV food sensitivity, but again, it seems like a very rare problem.

I hope that this study gets proper followup studies. Learning about the interactions between the immune system(s), the brain, and the microbiome(s), and the rest of the body is important. With enough knowledge, they could replace some "smash the whole body" drugs with ones that target the actual problem. Also, these sorts of studies might lead to better diagnostics. "Patient has deficiency in isovaline production" is much more useful than "Patient complains about feeling fatigued."
 
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