Red Light Therapy, PEMF, Oxyhydrogen, and AVS

[stellaluna]

I have moderate ME, 3-4 on the PR scale. I also have POTS, various skin issues, allergies, and GI issues.

Yesterday I had an appointment at a pain management clinic. I had booked the appointment as I was interested in trying red light therapy for my skin primarily (I had a very severe rash flare on my face), but also hoping it would help with my fatigue as well. The clinician did the intake, and offered to add on PEMF therapy. I had never heard of this before and the way she explained it did not instill any confidence in me. However, she offered me a considerable discount to try it, mentioning that I am a young person, a student, struggling to work, etc. So I thought okay, what the hell. Let’s try it.

She got me to lay on this mat, explaining that it would send electromagnetic pulses into my body (?) that break up cell clumps (?) and reduce inflammation (??). By this point I was sure I was being scammed, but whatever I was willing to be scammed out of $15 here. Next, she put a nasal cannula in and told me she was administering oxyhydrogen, which apparently “hydrates the cells better than water” and “has powerful antioxidant effects”. Then she had me wear this mask, put in earbuds, and close my eyes. The mask flashed lights on my closed eyes and the earbuds played binaural beats.

I laid there for 20 or 30 minutes, just focusing on my breathing. Usually when I lay down and focus on my breathing for this long, I get very tired and cold and I feel sluggish getting out of it. But in this case, I felt a pleasant warm sensation inside my body. I felt stimulated but relaxed. It felt like being in a forest on a summer day, being very at peace, taking in the nature, feeling the sun warm my body through the trees.

Next, I did the red light therapy. I laid naked in this booth for 20 minutes. This time my nasal cannula was just giving me oxygen. I felt a bit uneasy but nothing major.

After my appointment, I had to go to physio. In physio we usually spend a few minutes on exercises and mainly focus on body work, such as lymphatic drainage. This time, we did 20 minutes or so of exercises. We stopped because I was concerned about crashing, not because I was feeling unwell in any way. After this, I was able to go grocery shopping, stop by the pharmacy, head home, and prepare myself a nutritious meal. I felt a moderate sense of wellbeing throughout the evening.

I looked into the first treatment and found that PEMF is a validated therapy for a few things like injuries, but isn’t well researched for fatigue. Oxyhydrogen is apparently quackery, with only anecdotal evidence.

Today, I woke up feeling better than usual although my sleep was not great. Normally I wake up feeling like I was hit by a bus, and it takes me about 4 hours to really get going. Today I woke up with that feeling at about 50% intensity and it only took me an hour before I was in the shower washing my hair. I rested after that. I’ve been seriously freaked out by this sense of wellbeing and energy, worried that I will cause a crash but feeling so motivated. Later on, I studied for an hour and 15. Lately I’ve had brain fog and have had to study in 5-10 minute increments, but today my brain fog didn’t start kicking in until the 80 minute mark.

Normally doing what I did yesterday would be feasible, but difficult, unpleasant, and would necessarily involve a crash. Maybe I will still crash, but my crashes are rarely this delayed and usually I am able to predict it. I don’t know what’s going on, but I am going to try this for 4-6 weeks and see what it does, because if it consistently produces this effect, that would be an incredible improvement to my quality of life and functioning.

Before I end this post, I need to note several confounds that might influence this.

• That morning, I took 5mg prednisolone and 10mg ketorolac for my skin flare. Prednisolone normally makes me feel energized for a few hours and the effects are completely gone by the next day. NSAIDs have never helped with any ME symptoms.
• That morning, I also started 40mg doxycycline once a day. However, at a sub-antimicrobial dose, it usually takes weeks to notice an effect.
• I had a flu about 2 weeks ago, and my physio noted residual lymph node swelling.
• I have been on LDA for about a week at this point (0.5mg), but hadn’t noticed any effect as of that morning.

My next appointment is in a week, so I will be sure not to take any prednisolone or ketorolac.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I'm big on energetic type medicine, so what you describe sounds worthwhile to be trying in my opinion.

It's so hard to tease out what is going on with the array of variables we typically experience.

Sounds like it would be worth trying this again, just be careful about overdoing it which is SO easy for us.

 

[Mary]

@stellaluna - thank you for such a detailed write-up of your experience! I've had good experiences with red light therapy. Something about it is very calming and also I believe it gives me a little more energy. It has helped with pain (e.g. a muscle or ligament that was quite sore for a very long time stopped hurting after a few weeks of red light). My sister who has rheumatoid arthritis found she needed less pain meds. My red light device is rather small, it doesn't cover my entire body and would take too much time/energy to move it around to various spots so now I'm wondering how I would do with a larger device -

I've never tried PEMF but glad you were able to -

And oxyhydrogen is new to me, but here's an article about it which I don't have the energy to read, at least right now . . . https://www.emjreviews.com/respirat...-for-covid-19-and-other-respiratory-diseases/

Please do post about your next treatment and do be careful about overdoing as @Rufous McKinney said!

 

[Wayne]

which I don't have the energy to read

Hi @Mary -- One of my favorite ways of using AI is to have it summarize articles (I can do sooo much more research doing this). I took the liberty of asking it to summarize the article you didn't have the energy to read (that's happened to me a "few" times as well)!

Here’s a summary of the provided text:

---

Oxygen (O₂) Therapy in Respiratory Medicine

• In the UK, oxygen is used in ~2 million ambulance callouts/year (~34% of cases) mainly to prevent hypoxaemia in emergencies like cardiac arrest or trauma.
• In hospitals, O₂ is prescribed for emergencies like anaphylaxis, COVID-19, opioid overdose, pneumonia, and chronic issues (e.g., asthma, COPD).
• O₂ increases alveolar oxygen tension, reducing the workload of the respiratory system.

---

Evolutionary Significance of Molecular Hydrogen (H₂)

• The hydrogen hypothesis suggests H₂ played a role in early cell evolution: ancestral microbes may have produced H₂, influencing the development of mitochondria and hydrogenosomes.
• H₂-producing hydrogenase enzymes are found in algae, plants (like rice), and some bacteria (e.g., E. coli in the gut).
• This suggests a fundamental, ancient role for H₂ in cellular metabolism across life.

---

Proposed Benefits of H₂ for Human Health

• Antioxidant Role: H₂ may selectively neutralize damaging ROS (like hydroxyl radicals) and upregulate Nrf2, a transcription factor that promotes antioxidant and cytoprotective gene expression.
• Immunomodulation & Antiapoptotic Effects: H₂, via Nrf2, may downregulate NF-κB (a pro-inflammatory transcription factor), reducing inflammation in diseases.

---

Oxy-Hydrogen (HHO) in Respiratory Disease

• Emerging research suggests HHO inhalation (mixture of H₂ and O₂) can reduce airway inflammation in asthma (animal studies) and decrease pro-inflammatory markers.
• Preliminary clinical trials in COVID-19 and COPD patients show no adverse effects and possible symptom improvement, including better oxygenation and reduced inflammation.
• Chinese protocols have recommended HHO for coronavirus-associated pneumonia.

---

Future Research Directions

• More human trials are needed to confirm safety and effectiveness of HHO therapy.
• In silico modeling of H₂ interactions and detailed mechanistic studies will help establish its therapeutic potential.

---

Conclusion
HHO inhalation therapy appears promising for respiratory diseases (e.g., asthma, COPD, COVID-19), combining oxygen’s known benefits with hydrogen’s potential antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects. However, broader clinical validation is still needed before routine use.

---

Let me know if you’d like me to focus on any particular section, create a more technical or simplified version, or draft a short discussion piece based on these findings!

 

[stellaluna]

Hi @Mary -- One of my favorite ways of using AI is to have it summarize articles (I can do sooo much more research doing this). I took the liberty of asking it to summarize the article you didn't have the energy to read (that's happened to me a "few" times as well)!

Here’s a summary of the provided text:

---

Oxygen (O₂) Therapy in Respiratory Medicine

• In the UK, oxygen is used in ~2 million ambulance callouts/year (~34% of cases) mainly to prevent hypoxaemia in emergencies like cardiac arrest or trauma.
• In hospitals, O₂ is prescribed for emergencies like anaphylaxis, COVID-19, opioid overdose, pneumonia, and chronic issues (e.g., asthma, COPD).
• O₂ increases alveolar oxygen tension, reducing the workload of the respiratory system.

---

Evolutionary Significance of Molecular Hydrogen (H₂)

• The hydrogen hypothesis suggests H₂ played a role in early cell evolution: ancestral microbes may have produced H₂, influencing the development of mitochondria and hydrogenosomes.
• H₂-producing hydrogenase enzymes are found in algae, plants (like rice), and some bacteria (e.g., E. coli in the gut).
• This suggests a fundamental, ancient role for H₂ in cellular metabolism across life.

---

Proposed Benefits of H₂ for Human Health

• Antioxidant Role: H₂ may selectively neutralize damaging ROS (like hydroxyl radicals) and upregulate Nrf2, a transcription factor that promotes antioxidant and cytoprotective gene expression.
• Immunomodulation & Antiapoptotic Effects: H₂, via Nrf2, may downregulate NF-κB (a pro-inflammatory transcription factor), reducing inflammation in diseases.

---

Oxy-Hydrogen (HHO) in Respiratory Disease

• Emerging research suggests HHO inhalation (mixture of H₂ and O₂) can reduce airway inflammation in asthma (animal studies) and decrease pro-inflammatory markers.
• Preliminary clinical trials in COVID-19 and COPD patients show no adverse effects and possible symptom improvement, including better oxygenation and reduced inflammation.
• Chinese protocols have recommended HHO for coronavirus-associated pneumonia.

---

Future Research Directions

• More human trials are needed to confirm safety and effectiveness of HHO therapy.
• In silico modeling of H₂ interactions and detailed mechanistic studies will help establish its therapeutic potential.

---

Conclusion
HHO inhalation therapy appears promising for respiratory diseases (e.g., asthma, COPD, COVID-19), combining oxygen’s known benefits with hydrogen’s potential antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects. However, broader clinical validation is still needed before routine use.

---

Let me know if you’d like me to focus on any particular section, create a more technical or simplified version, or draft a short discussion piece based on these findings!

Thanks for this. Possible benefits in some conditions and no adverse effects is more than enough for me right now

 

[Wayne]

Possible benefits in some conditions and no adverse effects is more than enough for me right now

Hi @stellaluna -- Congratulations on your remarkable experience, and thank you for sharing it here. Wouldn't you think "Possible benefits in some conditions and no adverse effects..." should carry CONSIDERABLE weight when devising treatment strategies for many people, with a wide variety of health conditions?

Instead we often get the lame, "there's no scientific proof...", and then they don't do common sense kinds of therapies like what you just described--that work, and have little to no risks!

 

[stellaluna]

Hi @stellaluna -- Congratulations on your remarkable experience, and thank you for sharing it here. Wouldn't you think "Possible benefits in some conditions and no adverse effects..." should carry CONSIDERABLE weight when devising treatment strategies for many people, with a wide variety of health conditions?

Instead we often get the lame, "there's no scientific proof...", and then they don't do common sense kinds of therapies like what you just described--that work, and have little to no risks!

Yeah, I see what you’re saying. Personally I am pretty willing to try things. As my ME is moderate, I am fortunate enough to have the energy to try treatments. Also, while my funds aren’t unlimited, I am not so strapped for cash that I can’t afford to experiment like this sometimes. I think that’s the real risk sometimes. Even if the treatment is generally considered safe and well-tolerated, if the financial or energetic costs outweigh the probability of improvement, it may end up causing harm in the end.

It’s how I feel about IVIG. I’d be more concerned about the price tag than any medication side effects. Unless there was a very high probability that it would work of course.

But in my case right now, it’s just $15 extra a week, and so far there are perceived benefits. So knowing that it’s unlikely to have any adverse effects, I feel pretty comfortable continuing with it

 

[Dysfunkion]

Great to see someone else trying the redlight therapy too, I just started experimenting with it. I'll see how things roll out from here, I might actually even wait until my reaction die down before trying again. I'll see how I feel in the morning, I got a mix of benefits and side effects. What's interesting is that I have no reaction to it on my hands/arms but I do starting at 30 seconds on my head (I did it for a minute) so it's also dependent on where I shine it. It also causes part of the flu like symptom cluster but besides some fatigue and a tiny bit of malaise I'm actually clearer headed and sensory wise but I have a immune reaction going on that feels rather spicy and is also in cascade effecting my speech a bit which is normal with this familiar cascade to me. Got a little nasal drip going too so it's obviously an immune mediated one. I also feel more motivated and emotionally clear as well as more social so it's as if the side effects are stemming from the nerves themselves and something in them reacting to it. I can't imagine 1 minute would have produced any significant amount of ROS either and I combat ROS well with my supplement and herbal stack anyways. It could even be a herx considering how specifically localized this reaction was. From my hand test there was no heating either so it's not that.. I also was out in the sun for over an hour today, that heat doesn't do anything like this either ruling out a temperature shift effect.

 

[Mary]

Hi @Mary -- One of my favorite ways of using AI is to have it summarize articles (I can do sooo much more research doing this). I took the liberty of asking it to summarize the article you didn't have the energy to read (that's happened to me a "few" times as well)!

Hi @Wayne - I've seen your posts about AI but it didn't register that I could use it like you did here . . . thank you for the suggestion! tbh, I dn even have the energy to look at the summary AI did - I've been dealing with some serious pet issues and I've crashed and then recovered but I think my adrenals have taken a bit of a hit so my energy is in the toilet but I have a supplement I'm taking, and hoping to get some energy back in a day or 2. Anyways, I will look at it later though - thanks again!

 

[Dysfunkion]

Day 3 for me, did my 3rd minute a while ago right when I woke up. See my blog post on how that went. Shortly after every time I use it I do get a histamine like (it may be release of something else I'm just guessing) reaction in the usual offenders of where my "brain burn" occurs. It was the most intense with session one but now is much less brutal and mostly behind my forehead as opposed to everywhere, eyes also get a bit red from it. This fades as the day goes on and I feel better in every other sense, then much later at night I get more prone to having a silent migraine like crash that I need to just go to bed to deal with, not sure if that will happen tonight. I did also play an intense mentally taxing video game last night that I also got infinitely worse at as that got worse when I didn't have much to spare as it was so maybe some energy producing something got depleted that can accelerate in depletion upon doing anything too mentally intense. It is also the end of the work week too with another day to go so there's also that.

 

[stellaluna]

Update.

It has now been 4 days since my first treatment. I have described the day of and the day following the treatment. I will share the next 2 days.

2 days after. I did not feel as well as I had been. However, while usually it takes me 4 hours to get out of bed, I was still out of bed within 1.5 hours. I did a few of my physio exercises, but not all. I spend a lot of time in bed and studied for around 25 minutes in small increments throughout the day. I was worried this was the start of a crash, but it actually did not progress any further than this, which was still above my normal baseline. I felt very sleepy that night. Not super fatigued, just sleepy. I had no trouble falling asleep.

3 days after. I woke up feeling rested and recovered. Since I did not work this week, I had made it a goal to go to class this day. I have a 3 hour lecture twice a week and, being halfway through the term, I had still not attended a single lecture at this point. It took me a while to get ready, probably 5 hours between waking and getting out the door, but this accounts for hair and makeup. I didn’t know where my class was so I ended up 30 minutes late but I did eventually make it. I stayed in class for exactly 1 hour before feeling slight signs of “fading”.

I went home to rest for a bit and then decided to go to the pharmacy to pick up some prescriptions. Normally I would not do both in a day, and going did lead to a fair amount of sun exposure. I got home in time for a virtual appointment. Afterwards, I ate a simple dinner and started to feel my energy draining so I spent the rest of the evening in bed.

I thought I had really messed up. I shouldn’t have gone out twice in one day. And on top of that I was feeling a bit sick from the sun. I was bracing myself for all of this to progress to something much worse.

…but this morning I wake up feeling ~80% rested and recovered. Wow.

Skin. My initial motivation for red light therapy. My flare started the day before the treatment, and I was so desperate for it to go away that I took oral medications and used a topical steroid. So maybe it’s the lingering effects of that, but I have not used any corticosteroids since my treatment and I have not had any rebound dermatitis. I’m not in the clear yet though.

To everyone reminding me to be careful with my energy expenditure: Totally, I agree. I keep reminding myself this but I have always been the type to push myself and at some point I became sick enough that it forced me to let that go. Somewhere between my personality, having missed the world and the beautiful outdoors, and this scarcity mindset of “I don’t know when I’m going to feel like this again so I might as well make the most of it while I can”, it’s so hard to relax and pace. But, I do keep reminding myself to take it easy and I have been exercising caution and forcing myself to rest. I appreciate people’s reminders though.

Looking forward. I have another treatment on Sunday, and then I work for 3 hours on Tuesday (which almost always makes me crash). Due to a family emergency, I have to take a short flight on Wednesday. This is terrifying to me. So I booked an IV appointment a few hours before my flight for extra support but we’ll see how this plays out.

 

[Artemisia]

i have not read all of this but wonder for those who do well on red light therapy, how do you do in sunlight?

 

[Dysfunkion]

i have not read all of this but wonder for those who do well on red light therapy, how do you do in sunlight?

Sunlight with a lot of exposure amps me up a bit but tends to make me more prone to migraines and baseline fatigue physically. If I overdo it with my current combo lamp red light with the near infrared I feel like that and need to get some kind of balance. Sunlight doesn't reduce the head pressure, start my digestive system up normally, or kick start sweating again like the red light does though and have the initial surge of hot feelings in my forehead. I'm not sure what that is but after the first session it reduced in intensity.

 

[Artemisia]

Sunlight with a lot of exposure amps me up a bit but tends to make me more prone to migraines and baseline fatigue physically. If I overdo it with my current combo lamp red light with the near infrared I feel like that and need to get some kind of balance. Sunlight doesn't reduce the head pressure, start my digestive system up normally, or kick start sweating again like the red light does though and have the initial surge of hot feelings in my forehead. I'm not sure what that is but after the first session it reduced in intensity.

are you in a high latitude, far from equator (like the UK or northern US)?

 

[pamojja]

wonder for those who do well on red light therapy, how do you do in sunlight?

Whole body sun-exposure was an important co-factor for my remissions. When not possible, I tried to replicate with Infrared lamps. Other than with sunlight, where I can take it easy for 2 hours, 20 minutes with the infrared lamps only. Which did replicate some results, but probably due to less consistent application, by far not as much as sunshine does for me.

 

[Dysfunkion]

are you in a high latitude, far from equator (like the UK or northern US)?

I'm in the northeast US, sort of close to the shore but not on it.

 

[stellaluna]

i have not read all of this but wonder for those who do well on red light therapy, how do you do in sunlight?

The other day I was out doing errands and I do believe it was the sunlight that made me sick moreso than the physical exertion. Sunscreen helps a lot. I had sunscreen on my face and then wore long pants and a tank top with a pashmina that I thought was enough to cover my neck, chest, and arms. I ended up getting rashes on my neck, chest, and forearms but not my face. Those areas still feel hot despite no tan or burn. I also felt a lot of brain fog and drowsiness for ~12-16 hours after.

Pacific northwest here, we can get a good amount of sun in the summertime. It was 28C with clear skies and a UV index of 8 that day.

 

[Artemisia]

Other than with sunlight, where I can take it easy for 2 hours, 20 minutes with the infrared lamps only.

any way you could reword this? it does not make sense to me. thx.

so you think whole body exposure is important to you?

 

[Dysfunkion]

The other day I was out doing errands and I do believe it was the sunlight that made me sick moreso than the physical exertion. Sunscreen helps a lot. I had sunscreen on my face and then wore long pants and a tank top with a pashmina that I thought was enough to cover my neck, chest, and arms. I ended up getting rashes on my neck, chest, and forearms but not my face. Those areas still feel hot despite no tan or burn. I also felt a lot of brain fog and drowsiness for ~12-16 hours after.

Pacific northwest here, we can get a good amount of sun in the summertime. It was 28C with clear skies and a UV index of 8 that day.

Interesting I don't get the rashes but I get the delayed brain fog and drowsiness in that time frame after (sometimes sooner) before that I feel kind of charged up from the sun but like I said doesn't have the lasting benefits outside of the side effects like the RLT which depending on how I already feel can go in both directions. I also remain feeling hot for much longer and then any added heat I can't escape from (like right now for example) especially if there is any added stress will make my nervous system go haywire. Right now because I can't escape I'm stuck in a state of endlessly flushing and sweating out in waves followed by a mini fatigue wave and then it just repeats. The RLT managed to turn on sweating though and this happened before it too but just without a higher degree of sweating.

I would try it in this state right now to see if it gets me out of it but I don't want to break the new schedule I want to try with it or mess up my circadian rhythm at all by using it any time after getting out of bed which my body has probably already gotten used to.

 

[pamojja]

any way you could reword this? it does not make sense to me. thx.

I already felt the need to clarify further. This correlation of sun-bathing with other markers, and then disease processes, makes it clearer from another angle, too:

In below table I added max. pain-free walking distance (PFWD; in kms at about 4/hr), Erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR), C-reactive Protein (CRP), and Ankle Brachial Index (ABI; normal ≥9). Vitamin D intake (mcg), serum level (25-OH-D), whole-body sun-exposure (hrs/year), and total testosterone (TT) for their very strong correlation. The very high inflammation in '06, 2 years before the PAD diagnosis, was caused by a Myopericarditis.

year:   PFWD   ESR    CRP   ABI    mcg    hrs    25-D    TT    CIMT

2006:    -     74    96      -       -      -      -      -     -
  -      -      -     -      -       -      -      -      -     -
2008:    0.3    5     -     0.7      -      -      -      -     -
2009:    1      8     1.6    -      50      -      -      -     -
2010:    4     15.5   3.4    -     160     60     63     399    -
2011:    6      4     2.4   0.5    240     60     43     220    -
2012:    3      -     5.2   0.8    300     60     62     262    1.3 mm
2013:    3.5   68.5   3.7    -     200    220     84     320    -
2014:    5      9     4.8   0.7    190    220     50     340    1.9 mm
2015:    8     11.5   2.5    -     210    220     78     351    -
2016:    9      8     1.1   0.7    170    240     72     468    1.8 mm
2017:    9     18     1.7    -     220    340    101     631    -
2018:    -     32     5.1   0.9    160    340     93     681    1.0 mm
2019:    -     18.5   2      -     190    340     85     368    -

Seems the high inflammation with the year long chronic bronchitis in '12 progressed CIMT quite some further (a 20% yearly increase), and only around the time I lost my walking-disability it started to regress.

(note: above are yearly averages if more than 1 data-point was available, for example highest hsCRP in '12 was 7.6 mg/l, following ESR in '13 actually 130 mm/hr; highest 25(OH)D 135 ng/ml, lowest total testosterone 187 ng/dl)

1. Diagnosis of a walking-disability from PAD end of 2008.
2. COPD diagnosis, 2012. Remission of COPD symptoms 2013.
3. Remission of walking-disability from PAD 2015.
4. Remission of constant PEMs in 2018, after 2 years of maximum sunbathing, mainly on a South Indian beach before midday (therefore 2 hours only, there It's just too hot after midday). And a thereby accidentally overshooting vitamin D serum level.
5. 2021-22 trial of replication missing sun with an infrared-lamp, by not being able to fly to India for 2 years (no vaccine, no visa ). Recommended are 20 minutes each sessions. Which I was too neglecting, applying daily too. And thereby of course was less effective. In fact, slight leg-pains returned, but not to the extent of a walking-disability.

I want to add, that I flew to this South-Indian beach yearly in the deepest winter since 2012. And to my surprise found, I could bear up to 4 hours a day whole body-sun exposure (not the midday) without any sun-burn at all (without sun cream).

I can only explain this by my comprehensive life-style changes and supplementation since 2009 already. So better not to try, before supporting all anti-oxidant systems.