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question about vit D not rising although supplementing

Sundancer

Senior Member
Messages
569
Location
Holland
dear all,

a mom with a sick son asked this question elsewhere, now I seem to remember there has been a piece of research on this. Could someone point out this piece of writing to me so that I can forward it to her?

mom is at her wits end.

he gets hydroxy-injections, vit D and folic acid. neither D levels nor folic acid levels want to rise and boy says he's feeling worse now then before this regimen started.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,384
Location
Austria
When this regimen started? For me it took many years. For example in 2012 it took me double the vitamin D3 dose to reach half the serum levels, than in 2018.
 
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jesse's mom

Senior Member
Messages
6,795
Location
Alabama USA
I am having to tirate up on my D3 very slowly. My blood pressure drops and I faint when I go too fast. It will be about a year that I started with the baby drops and now take 1000iu daily. I have added another 1000iu twice a week. There is a really good vitamin D thread on this board, that is what helped me understand.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
dear all,

a mom with a sick son asked this question elsewhere, now I seem to remember there has been a piece of research on this. Could someone point out this piece of writing to me so that I can forward it to her?

mom is at her wits end.

he gets hydroxy-injections, vit D and folic acid. neither D levels nor folic acid levels want to rise and boy says he's feeling worse now then before this regimen started.


Not surprising to me.
 
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rel8ted

Senior Member
Messages
451
Location
Usa
Some docs recommend methyl folate for undermethylators. My vitamin D level is just now getting close to low end of normal after years of supplementing and working on healing damage to my gut. It takes a very long time and is frustrating.
 

kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,851
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Any idea of the boy's nutritional staus and GI function? Vit D absorption is best when taken with a fatty meal but fats tend to make GI motility issues worse and may get reduced in the diet. Malabsorption of fats can also be the problem, EPI (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) for instance.
 

Sundancer

Senior Member
Messages
569
Location
Holland
thanks all for responding, although I really am looking for a publication that I know is there, as I've seen it but as it does not concern me I let it pass.

When this regimen started? For me it took many years. For example in 2012 it took me double the vitamin D3 dose to reach half the serum levels, than in 2018.

some months I think, i do not know the situation well but hoped to give mom this publication when I heard her story. Until now the illness of the boy was thought to be a B12 uptake problem, but is clearly more then that.


I am having to tirate up on my D3 very slowly. My blood pressure drops and I faint when I go too fast. It will be about a year that I started with the baby drops and now take 1000iu daily. I have added another 1000iu twice a week. There is a really good vitamin D thread on this board, that is what helped me understand.

thank you, that in general is my take on taking stuff, start low, go slow.


Not surprising to me.
I'm having secnd thoughts too, but mom has to find her own way, maybe I'll direct her to PR, but do not know about her knowledge of english.


Some docs recommend methyl folate for undermethylators. My vitamin D level is just now getting close to low end of normal after years of supplementing and working on healing damage to my gut. It takes a very long time and is frustrating.

can relate to that, the slow and frustrating bit I mean, have no problems with D3 myself, but other things. Still housebound that is. I may suggest mom she looks into to the vast terrain of methylation


Any idea of the boy's nutritional staus and GI function? Vit D absorption is best when taken with a fatty meal but fats tend to make GI motility issues worse and may get reduced in the diet. Malabsorption of fats can also be the problem, EPI (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) for instance.

No idea, I've seen a pic and he looks thin.

There is a likely a genetic reason for the poor D absorption in some people. Poor D absorption usually goes hand in hand with osteoporosis and thyroid disease.

that might well be.

so i repeat my question ( else I need to do searching myself and do not feel my best these days)
and somebody here has that article just for the taking.

err... maybe @pattismith knows which publication I mean
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
I PERSONALLY would never ever take hormone D via supplementation. Your body will not be able too regulate it that way.

nnEMF IMO will be the reason for the low levels. High calcium EFFLUX.
 
Messages
16
I had trouble with extremely low vitamin D, supplements left me jittery and unable to sleep. After a bit of googling I found that being outside for 10 minutes with your shirt off on a sunny day your body will make 10,000 iu of vitamin D. I just sat in the sun a few days a week for 20 min or less and the problem was gone in a couple of months. I had no problems with reactions, sunburn or any other negative impact. I've only started up again after an unusually crazy wet winter in California, but it should be warming up soon even in Holland.

I can't remember where I read the info, but it was easy to find. Maybe even WebMD.
 

kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,851
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I just sat in the sun a few days a week for 20 min or less and the problem was gone in a couple of months.
It still won't get converted to vitamin D in the body if you have a malnutrition/malabsorption problem and little in the way of body fat stores. That's the case for me (from severe gastroparesis) and complicated by also having Autonomic Neuropathy so don't sweat enough and a couple of minutes of sun exposure gives me bad abdominal pain to boot. 2 months of putting up with the abdominal pain from sun exposure raised my vitamin D by 7 lousy points.

A vitamin D deficiency also changes the intestinal microbiome reducing B vitamin production in the gut so it can all become a vicious circle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27515213
Vitamin D deficiency also changes the intestinal microbiome reducing B vitamin production in the gut. The resulting lack of pantothenic acid adversely affects the immune system, producing a "pro-inflammatory" state associated with atherosclerosis and autoimmunity.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,384
Location
Austria
After a bit of googling I found that being outside for 10 minutes with your shirt off on a sunny day your body will make 10,000 iu of vitamin D.

Usually one reads after about 20 minutes. However, that is definitely an very individual thing. I usually took in average of about 8.800 IU/d for the last 10 years, which gave in average a 25(OH)D serum level of 70 ng/ml.

For the last 7 winters I always went to a South Indian beach for 6 weeks. Each day with 4 hours whole body sun-exposure, so in total about 120 hours each year's vacation. And there always reduced supplemented vitamin D to about below 3.000 IU.

However, if I take the averages of those vitamin D serum tests I took just after these vacations it is still 70 ng/ml only. Therefore if I subtract the 3000 IU I took during vacation from the 8.800 IU in total, it would amount to only 5.800 provided by 4 hours daily tropical sun-exposure, to maintain equal serum levels as with supplementation alone.

In my case I definitely do not get 10.000 IUs, even from 4 hours daily whole-body exposure.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
It still won't get converted to vitamin D in the body if you have a malnutrition/malabsorption problem and little in the way of body fat stores. That's the case for me (from severe gastroparesis) and complicated by also having Autonomic Neuropathy so don't sweat enough and a couple of minutes of sun exposure gives me bad abdominal pain to boot. 2 months of putting up with the abdominal pain from sun exposure raised my vitamin D by 7 lousy points.

A vitamin D deficiency also changes the intestinal microbiome reducing B vitamin production in the gut so it can all become a vicious circle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27515213
Vitamin D deficiency also changes the intestinal microbiome reducing B vitamin production in the gut. The resulting lack of pantothenic acid adversely affects the immune system, producing a "pro-inflammatory" state associated with atherosclerosis and autoimmunity.


You are in Aus? AM sunlight is your friend.

Red light penetrates the mitochondria to make more ATP.
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
A T420K-Polymorphism can significantly reduce VDBP and result in low Vitamin D (25(OH)D3 ) serum concentration. T420K polymorphism can be ruled out with a genetic test.
In heallty ppl. it should approximately look like this: Vitamin D3 -> 85% VDBP bound, 10% albumin bound, 1% free (biological active)
 
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kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,851
Location
Brisbane, Australia
You are in Aus? AM sunlight is your friend.

Red light penetrates the mitochondria to make more ATP.
My Endochrinologist explained that the problem is quite likely to also be one of not enough continuous sun exposure after first advising to do 2 minute bursts of sunlight which is about all I can tolerate without getting too much epigastric pain from it. There is no good explanation for the gut pain response side of things though.