Prusty talks about his upcoming research on a podcast

serg1942

serg1942

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Osaca said:
No problem at all. I fully understand that you've looked at this topic intensly and probably more intensively than anybody on this forum. Regarding my Naviaux statement: I definitely have to correct that then, as I haven't read his newer study (only a short summary) and made the false conclusion that he would have otherwise insisted more on something that he essentially already knew 30 years ago (which he seems to do in this paper at least, does he suggest an anti-purinergic therapy as well?).

I suppose Naviaux would then indeed be a good person to discuss this with.
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Yes, he thinks anti-purinergic therapy is the key, but not only. Anything that get us close to get out of the CDR will work synergistically. For example he proposes red and infrared light as it has demonstrated to improve the mitochondrial dynamics and the electroencephalogram of autistic kids.
 
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Osaca

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I can't remember correctly, did Prusty ever mention whether he was talking about plasma (pFn,
sectred by the liver into bloodstream) or cellular Fibronectin (cFn, secreted by various cells incorporated into extracellular matrix)? I assume the one with higher levels in the blood would only be the plasma Fibronectin, but what about the one not integrated into the immune complex, that seems to be plasma Fibronectin as well, right? Or did he also look at things at cellular levels? This paper goes into the details of the properties of the two groups of Fibronectin and the roughly 20 different forms of it in humans https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00018-016-2225-y (but it's a bit too technical for me).

In short: Cellular fibronectin influences the behaviour and signalling of a cell and as such is responsible for things like tissue remodeling, whilst plasma fibronectin serves multiple functions, including clot formation and regulation, immune response modulation, and transport of various molecules. They have distinct origins and functions.

Did he only look at plasma levels or also cellular levels?
 
Countrygirl

Countrygirl

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Osaca said:
I can't remember correctly, did Prusty ever mention whether he was talking about plasma (pFn,
sectred by the liver into bloodstream) or cellular Fibronectin (cFn, secreted by various cells incorporated into extracellular matrix)? I assume the one with higher levels in the blood would only be the plasma Fibronectin, but what about the one not integrated into the immune complex, that seems to be plasma Fibronectin as well, right? Or did he also look at things at cellular levels? This paper goes into the details of the properties of the two groups of Fibronectin and the roughly 20 different forms of it in humans https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00018-016-2225-y (but it's a bit too technical for me).

In short: Cellular fibronectin influences the behaviour and signalling of a cell and as such is responsible for things like tissue remodeling, whilst plasma fibronectin serves multiple functions, including clot formation and regulation, immune response modulation, and transport of various molecules. They have distinct origins and functions.

Did he only look at plasma levels or also cellular levels?
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I admit to just hanging on to your coat tails as my education was not science-based, but I spent yesterday writing up my notes on Dr Prusty's two talks on Friday and will upload them here. Please forgive any typos, repetitions, or misinterpretations (I hope there aren't any) but I do find his accent a little difficult at times. I hope I have made a reasonable attempt at listing the main points.

He did indeed concentrate on cellular fibronectin.
 

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Osaca

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Countrygirl said:
I admit to just hanging on to your coat tails as my education was not science-based, but I spent yesterday writing up my notes on Dr Prusty's two talks on Friday and will upload them here. Please forgive any typos, repetitions, or misinterpretations (I hope there aren't any) but I do find his accent a little difficult at times. I hope I have made a reasonable attempt at listing the main points.

He did indeed concentrate on cellular fibronectin.
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No, worries at all, there's no difference in us, we're all just patients trying to understand what happened to us and what we were before has long since passed.

Your summary is absolutely awesome!!!

It does raise several questions for me, maybe we can untangle them together. From what I’ve understood serum is cell free. It is blood minus the cells and some other things (I myself have probably misused the terminology serum multiple times). So the question is now wether the cellular fibronectin which is part of the extracellular matrix is part of the serum. From what Google tells me, only trace amounts of ECM components are found in serum and the majority is found within tissue, however I can’t find a reference to what percentage of the ECM percentage of Fibronectin is found in plasma, but from what I can gather it might be low.

If that were the case the sentence “The body is still producing adequate cellular fibronectin but it is accumulating in the serum.” wouldn't make much sense to me, at least from what I’ve understood about cellular fibronectin being either cell-bound or part of the extracellular matrix. Furthermore how can it be then possible to have an “excess of cellular fibronectin in the serum”?

From what I’ve understood the only thing that would definitely be present in the serum would be the low IgM autoantibody levels against fibronectin. The rest one might have to look for in the plasma or even in the tissue.

Update: I just found a very readable paper on cellular and plasma fibronectin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3182887/. According to this paper "only very low levels (1.3-1.4 μg/ml) of cellular FN have been reported to circulate in the blood plasma [17]." However, very interestingly "blood plasma levels of cellular FN levels have been shown to increase after major trauma resulting in vascular tissue damage, after inflammation, and in diseases such as atherosclerosis, ischaemic heart disease and stroke [18-21]."

So does that mean that if he did indeed only look for cellular levels, which I'm not sure about currently, then this is an indicator of the things we've been expecting like vascular tissue damage because of inflammation or ischemia or is there more to it?
 
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Countrygirl

Countrygirl

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Countrygirl

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,634
Location
UK
Osaca said:
No, worries at all, there's no difference in us, we're all just patients trying to understand what happened to us and what we were before has long since passed.

Your summary is absolutely awesome!!!

It does raise several questions for me, maybe we can untangle them together. From what I’ve understood serum is cell free. It is blood minus the cells and some other things (I myself have probably misused the terminology serum multiple times). So the question is now wether the cellular fibronectin which is part of the extracellular matrix is part of the serum. From what Google tells me, only trace amounts of ECM components are found in serum and the majority is found within tissue, however I can’t find a reference to what percentage of the ECM percentage of Fibronectin is found in plasma, but from what I can gather it might be low.

If that were the case the sentence “The body is still producing adequate cellular fibronectin but it is accumulating in the serum.” wouldn't make much sense to me, at least from what I’ve understood about cellular fibronectin being either cell-bound or part of the extracellular matrix. Furthermore how can it be then possible to have an “excess of cellular fibronectin in the serum”?

From what I’ve understood the only thing that would definitely be present in the serum would be the low IgM autoantibody levels against fibronectin. The rest one might have to look for in the plasma or even in the tissue.

Update: I just found a very readable paper on cellular and plasma fibronectin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3182887/. According to this paper "only very low levels (1.3-1.4 μg/ml) of cellular FN have been reported to circulate in the blood plasma [17]." However, very interestingly "blood plasma levels of cellular FN levels have been shown to increase after major trauma resulting in vascular tissue damage, after inflammation, and in diseases such as atherosclerosis, ischaemic heart disease and stroke [18-21]."

So does that mean that if he did indeed only look for cellular levels, which I'm not sure about currently, then this is an indicator of the things we've been expecting like vascular tissue damage because of inflammation or ischemia or is there more to it?
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@Osaca, I haven't the energy time right now to consider this in more depth but I understood Dr P to mean that cellular fibronectin was collecting in the serum (I found his accent difficult at times) and I understood this to be a pathological sign. I understand it does collect in cancer and serious disease. Is that correct? You will know better than I do as I have no science background.

Maybe you are right and he was referring to IgM autoantibodies against fibronectin. I would need to listen to his hour-long lecture again to see if I misheard which is quite possible. Hope we can get to the bottom of it.
 
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Osaca

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Countrygirl said:
Maybe you are right and he was referring to IgM autoantibodies against fibronectin. I would need to listen to his hour-long lecture again to see if I misheard which is quite possible. Hope we can get to the bottom of it.
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Yes, I fear we might have to re-listen to the podcast again and I think even after that it won't be clear since he might just have forgotten to mention if it's cFn or pFn, plus the talk was a little unstructured.

Unfortunately, I don't have the energy to re-listen to the podcast (I can't listen to things well), but I've been trying to use a transciption software for audio and video files. It's currently transcribing. If it turns out any good I will upload the transcript here.
 
Countrygirl

Countrygirl

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Osaca said:
Yes, I fear we might have to re-listen to the podcast again and I think even after that it won't be clear since he might just have forgotten to mention if it's cFn or pFn, plus the talk was a little unstructured.

Unfortunately, I don't have the energy to re-listen to the podcast (I can't listen to things well), but I've been trying to use a transciption software for audio and video files. It's currently transcribing. If it turns out any good I will upload the transcript here.
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I have listened again and he refers to 'fibronectin' in the serum. He had already said in another lecture that he was only referring to 'cellular fibronectin' in his talk so I juxtaposed the two statements and concluded that he meant that there was an excess of cellular fibronectin in the serum. So, it is anyone's guess at the moment. Roll on the publication of the paper.
 
Countrygirl

Countrygirl

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5,634
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Osaca said:
Yes, I fear we might have to re-listen to the podcast again and I think even after that it won't be clear since he might just have forgotten to mention if it's cFn or pFn, plus the talk was a little unstructured.

Unfortunately, I don't have the energy to re-listen to the podcast (I can't listen to things well), but I've been trying to use a transciption software for audio and video files. It's currently transcribing. If it turns out any good I will upload the transcript here.
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That sounds like a wonderful tool. Please do share it when it is ready.
 
H

hapl808

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If you don't mind somewhat unfinished products that are a bit tech-y to use, I recommend Whisper (same company that made ChatGPT).

Here's a place where you can try it for free. It's not a great interface - but you can choose at the top left whether it's an audio file or just a YouTube link. Then it will transcribe (or even translate to English) any speech. I think it's currently the best speech to text transcription software I've seen.

https://huggingface.co/spaces/sanchit-gandhi/whisper-jax

If you need to transcribe a 50 minute YouTube so you can search it, it's a great tool. Occasionally it gets overloaded and errors out, but it's great when it works.
 
O

Osaca

Senior Member
Messages
344
hapl808 said:
If you don't mind somewhat unfinished products that are a bit tech-y to use, I recommend Whisper (same company that made ChatGPT).

Here's a place where you can try it for free. It's not a great interface - but you can choose at the top left whether it's an audio file or just a YouTube link. Then it will transcribe (or even translate to English) any speech. I think it's currently the best speech to text transcription software I've seen.

https://huggingface.co/spaces/sanchit-gandhi/whisper-jax

If you need to transcribe a 50 minute YouTube so you can search it, it's a great tool. Occasionally it gets overloaded and errors out, but it's great when it works.
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I used Otter.ai, I just read that, that was a good one (can use Whisper next time for comparison). Still finalising things and will upload it then. I won't be going through the errors the transcriptor makes, since that's too much work, so there'll definitely be some funny mistakes.
 
H

hapl808

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2,332
Osaca said:
I used Otter.ai, I just read that, that was a good one (can use Whisper next time for comparison). Still finalising things and will upload it then. I won't be going through the errors the transcriptor makes, since that's too much work, so there'll definitely be some funny mistakes.
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Yeah, Otter seems quite good and I think before Whisper was probably among the best. The difference may not be huge, but Whisper understands some surprisingly difficult things.
 
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