PON1 mutations, Excess acetylcholine, excess Adrenaline

[racerbiker39]

I have realized a lot of my problems have been due to excess acetylcholine. SSRI'S are anticholinergic so they helped me to great extent but not completely. However SSRI'S only target the muscarnic receptors and not the nicotine receptors. I realized that nicotine, acetylcholine and ethanol can all activate the nicotinic receptors in the adrenal medulla and the potential action is secretion of adrenaline. In fact a drug that was used for hypertension was actually a nicotine antagonist.

Anytime I eat foods high in choline like egg, meat etc.. I feel overstimulated and terrible.
I tested my pseudo cholinesterase enzyme and it shows the enzyme being overloaded. I test it again after eating foods high in choline and the cholinesterase enzyme value shoots up..

I have PON1 Mutations and eating nightshades makes me feel horrible. I am now certain that excess acetylcholine is the root cause of a my problems.

Many doctors don't know these details and I am.atuck to figure things on my own

How do we solve this? Any ideas
Thanks

 

[Judee]

Is this the same mutation you have?




I'm not sure what the answer is but I get some of the same reactions you do with the exception of the SSRI's which I have not taken so I don't know if they would react the same.

Also, meat doesn't make me feel ill but eggs and nightshades do. I was tested for Cortisol issues lately but wondered if there is a test for Adrenaline because I do feel like mine runs high making me even more tired all the time.

 

[Judee]

It's funny because when I compared my 23andme to this page, all of them matched his as well except two were not on my report. I know he's talking about serotonin but I think that has something to do with it as well and maybe why SSRI's help you some.

Edit: This is also a good post. Person's symptoms resolved including decrease of excessive adrenaline and four-fold increase of serotonin.

 

[racerbiker39]

@Judee I do have the same PON1 rs662 mutation that was listed in the sheet you attached. So yes we seem to have similar issues.

I am trying to avoid foods high in choline and that seems to give me a lot of relief.

 

[Belbyr]

How did you get this information off your 23&me? I did one about 8 months ago, but all it did was just show me heritage.

 

[Judee]

@Belbyr, we bought the Health and Ancestry kit: https://www.23andme.com/?caro=ehkit-fsa-manual
(this page shows their 3 different kits) and then once they completed our report, we downloaded the raw data. After that I went to a website called https://mthfrsupport.com/ and purchased their app called Sterling's app and uploaded it to that.

Sometimes on holidays, such as Father's day, 23andme will put the kit on sale for $149.

 

[Carnation4000]

Sounds like you might be doing better just by avoiding food sources of choline but I still want to add a few suggestions.

About six months ago I took some bentonite clay to clean up my gut after a minor food poisoning event. I guess my gut was still irritated, and the clay caused horrible inflammation that made my Acetyl Choline go sky high. What a nightmare.

I scoured the internet (of course) and came up with a list of things to try. All of these helped me!
- Hot Water - Have you ever run hot water over an itchy spot to release histamine? The same thing works for AC. Take a hot shower (as hot as you can stand). It will release a lot of the AC.
- CBD - I live in Florida and have access to legal medical grade CBD which is wonderful at lowering AC
- N Acetyl Tyrosine - This increases acetylcholinesterase, an enzyme that breaks down AC
- Willow
- Nettle
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin K
- Vitamin B6
- Benfotiamine
- Elderberry
- Glycine
- Alpha Lipoic Acid
- Cat's Claw
- Magnolia Bark
- Bromelain

Oh - also be careful with magnesium as it can sometimes raise AC.

I hope this is helpful for you. Too much AC is just miserable so hope you are finding relief.

 

[racerbiker39]

@Carnation4000 Thanks. I do react to pretty much everything that contains a significant amount of choline or lecithin. I do know that I have a few acetylcholine receptor mutations as well as choline transporter mutations.

Among the supplements you listed which of them has the highest potential to reduce Acetylcholine

 

[Carnation4000]

The things that made the most difference for me - kinda in order:

The hot water trick. It releases so much acetylcholine - enough so that I could sleep right after.

CBD

Nettle - who knew? It also helps lower histamine.

Willow

But a mix of several supplements like elderberry, willow, and cat's claw also made a huge difference. And, not being vitamins, I could take them a few times a day as they are pretty safe and don't cause any problems for me. I would add Bromelain into that mix too.

I totally sympathize with you! Dealing with high AC is horrible - just horrible. It's frustrating when you do research and find nothing but "how to increase acetylcholine" articles - argh!

 

[racerbiker39]

Anyone tried anticholinergics? I tried them but does not seem to help much.

 

[dannybex]

Sounds like you might be doing better just by avoiding food sources of choline but I still want to add a few suggestions.

About six months ago I took some bentonite clay to clean up my gut after a minor food poisoning event. I guess my gut was still irritated, and the clay caused horrible inflammation that made my Acetyl Choline go sky high. What a nightmare.

I scoured the internet (of course) and came up with a list of things to try. All of these helped me!
- Hot Water - Have you ever run hot water over an itchy spot to release histamine? The same thing works for AC. Take a hot shower (as hot as you can stand). It will release a lot of the AC.
- CBD - I live in Florida and have access to legal medical grade CBD which is wonderful at lowering AC
- N Acetyl Tyrosine - This increases acetylcholinesterase, an enzyme that breaks down AC
- Willow
- Nettle
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin K
- Vitamin B6
- Benfotiamine
- Elderberry
- Glycine
- Alpha Lipoic Acid
- Cat's Claw
- Magnolia Bark
- Bromelain

Oh - also be careful with magnesium as it can sometimes raise AC.

I hope this is helpful for you. Too much AC is just miserable so hope you are finding relief.

Hello @Carnation4000

Could you provide some links to some of these? I can't tolerate CBD or B6, and have seen studies that show tyrosine and ALA increase the acetylcholinesterase enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine (B12 and carnitine do as well). Not so sure about glycine -- this study is hard to interpret, at least for me, because although it suggests it 'releases' acetylcholinesterase, it also says this release "might play a role in chronic neurotoxicity."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022510X97002451

???

But benfotiamine and/or thiamine -- couldn't find anything except studies that suggested they help w/Alzheimers (where acetylcholine/choline is low). And same for bromelain -- it seemed to help Alz.

And Nettle, that actually increases acetylcholine via the acetyltransferase enzyme.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1177554/

Anyway, you're right. High acetylcholine is indeed a nightmare. I realized I've been eating breads, etc., that contain potato starch/flour for the last few days and (as in the past) was almost ready to jump out the window from sheer panic, muscle cramping, twitching, etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dannybex]

Just found this. Cinnamon strongly inhibits the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine. Another thing I'd added to my diet in the last month...

 

[Carnation4000]

Hello @Carnation4000

Could you provide some links to some of these? I can't tolerate CBD or B6, and have seen studies that show tyrosine and ALA increase the acetylcholinesterase enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine (B12 and carnitine do as well). Not so sure about glycine -- this study is hard to interpret, at least for me, because although it suggests it 'releases' acetylcholinesterase, it also says this release "might play a role in chronic neurotoxicity."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022510X97002451

???

But benfotiamine and/or thiamine -- couldn't find anything except studies that suggested they help w/Alzheimers (where acetylcholine/choline is low). And same for bromelain -- it seemed to help Alz.

And Nettle, that actually increases acetylcholine via the acetyltransferase enzyme.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1177554/

Anyway, you're right. High acetylcholine is indeed a nightmare. I realized I've been eating breads, etc., that contain potato starch/flour for the last few days and (as in the past) was almost ready to jump out the window from sheer panic, muscle cramping, twitching, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Hi DannyBex,

So sorry to be so long replying to this. I ended up in the hospital recently and it took a while before I even cracked open my computer. Plus I had to avoid this site as there can be information overload, and I just couldn't handle it.

Unfortunately, I don't have any studies I can point to. To be honest, my brain is not 100% right now, and I might not remember if I did find any studies. As you probably realized, there's very little information about reducing acetylcholine - ugh. I scoured the internet looking for reliable information. I know I was relying on Selfhacked, Bebrainfit, Nootropedia, and LifeExtension. AND self-experimentation - gulp.

Since my hospital stay, I came across some info (can't remember where now) about hypoglycemia causing neurotransmitter imbalance. I realized this was probably the root of my problem, and my issues with acetylcholing have disappeared.

I surely hope you find something that helps you! Again, please forgive my tardy response...

 

[dannybex]

No worries. Hope you're feeling better as soon or sooner than possible.