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Phenibut: how to mitigate the withdrawal syndrome?

Messages
92
Sometimes I take Phenibut when my digestive problems become severe. This drug works wonders: the aching pain and discomfort in the right hypochondrium disappears, the digestion is getting much better. But even after two days of taking the medicine, on the third day, if I did not take Phenibut again, my head starts to hurt.
Has anyone managed to mitigate Phenibut withdrawal? Any headache medicine?
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Has anyone managed to mitigate Phenibut withdrawal?

Some people suggest phenibut is worse than benzodiazepines for withdrawal symptoms. I don't think there are any easy answers. You might look into kava kava as an alternative. Like phenibut kava also works on GABA receptors, but unlike phenibut does not have addictive properties.
 

Thinktank

Senior Member
Messages
1,640
Location
Europe
Phenibut has affinity for the GABA-B receptor just like baclofen does. Kava kava for GABA-A, i don't think you can mitigate the withdrawal syndrome by using something that hits the A receptor.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Phenibut has affinity for the GABA-B receptor just like baclofen does. Kava kava for GABA-A, i don't think you can mitigate the withdrawal syndrome by using something that hits the A receptor.

Phenibut agonizes both the GABA-A and GABA-B receptor. I imagine the tolerance – addiction – withdrawal symptoms arise more from its effects on GABA-A.

I am suggesting kava might be used in place of phenibut, rather than for mitigating phenibut withdrawal.

Interestingly, kava actually has anti-tolerance effects: rather than the GABA-A system becoming de-sensitized over time (ie, tolerance build-up) as occurs with benzodiazepines, with continued use of kava, GABA-A becomes more sensitized. Ref: 1
 
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Messages
92
@Thinktank, @Hd-x, I put it not quite accurately, I'm sorry. I have no dependence on Phenibut, because due to the sedative effect I cannot take it for several days in a row. And I have no desire to accept it again. I only use it sometimes to alleviate my digestive problems. And I thought that maybe there is a way to continue to sometimes use Phenibut and at the same time not have a headache after stopping the reception.
By the way, does baclofen alleviate digestive problems like Phenibut?
As for the headache, is it worth using ibuprofen as you think?
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
Ok, I now understand (hehe sry, sometimes its my english ;-))
Phenibut has (depending on dosage) effects like if a pill would combine all the effects together from Baclofen + Diazepam.
Baclofen will primary adress problems with stiff muscle pain and it may help getting muscles more relaxed, so usually less pain.
Low dose Clonazepam or Nootropica like Picamilon may be perhaps some alternative drugs.

Picamilon is somewhere similar to Phenibut,
the main difference is that Picamilon uses B3 (Niacin) as GABA carrier to penetrate blood/brain barrier. Obvisously you tolerate B3 as GABA carrier better?
If you are looking more for mental enhancing effects there are Nootropica availible like Piracetam and so on.
 
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Thinktank

Senior Member
Messages
1,640
Location
Europe
Phenibut agonizes both the GABA-A and GABA-B receptor. I imagine the tolerance – addiction – withdrawal symptoms arise more from its effects on GABA-A.

I am suggesting kava might be used in place of phenibut, rather than for mitigating phenibut withdrawal.

Interestingly, kava actually has anti-tolerance effects: rather than the GABA-A system becoming de-sensitized over time (ie, tolerance build-up) as occurs with benzodiazepines, with continued use of kava, GABA-A becomes more sensitized. Ref: 1

Yes, but it doesn't have high affinity for the A receptor.
Withdrawal symptoms happen just as well with the B receptor.
Personally i have used all kinds of A and B agonists. I find my tolerance to B agonists to develop much quicker than any A agonist. I use baclofen sporadically, but i know i can't take it more than a few days or i'll suffer from extreme anxiety, panic, hyperacusis etc when i stop taking it. That's not the case when i take any A agonist for a few days. Anyway, that's my personal experience.
I know of a few people who have been on baclofen for a long period of time and withdrawal was as bad as benzo withdrawal.
Again, it's my own opinion but i don't think the A receptor is the problem here.
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
@Hd-x, can these drugs help with digestive problems?
What kind off digestive problems do you have?
For most digestive problems herbal solutions like Iberogast work fine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberogast
Iberogast is usually very well tolerated.
If you have digestive probems like nausea, there are drugs like Cyproheptadin availible - it may help some ppl. fixing an irritable bowel syndrome if it has some allergic reasons , the downside is the drug can make
sleepy, foggy and more fatigue. Cyproheptadin should also not be used if ppl. have eye problems like glaucoma. Drugs like Diazepam can be used because or if anxiety makes a IBS symptoms worse.
Certainly in the long term it would be wise, to figure out the reasons for any digestive problems.
 

Thinktank

Senior Member
Messages
1,640
Location
Europe
@Thinktank, @Hd-x, I put it not quite accurately, I'm sorry. I have no dependence on Phenibut, because due to the sedative effect I cannot take it for several days in a row. And I have no desire to accept it again. I only use it sometimes to alleviate my digestive problems. And I thought that maybe there is a way to continue to sometimes use Phenibut and at the same time not have a headache after stopping the reception.
By the way, does baclofen alleviate digestive problems like Phenibut?
As for the headache, is it worth using ibuprofen as you think?

I don't know if baclofen alleviates digestive problems, but i notice strong anti-inflammatory effects from even a low dose.
You should discuss the headache with your doctor.

Have you ever been to a gastroenterologist?
A gastroscopy and MRI can reveal a lot, you need to find the cause of the pain.
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
I don't know if baclofen alleviates digestive problems, but i notice strong anti-inflammatory effects from even a low dose.
Baclofen has like mentioned few anti-inflammatory effects and may also be able to inhibit somewhat sensitive vagal afferents. As far as I know there have been no other digestive effects published so far; it also didnt have the same mood uplifting & relaxing effect like Phenibut.
It´s primary use is as a (muscle) pain reliefer or to help ppl. getting off from alcohol abuse.