Ph, acidity, achiness, fatigue, baking soda, high BP - is lemon juice the answer? More energy since starting lemon juice

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
I have been wrestling with extra achiness and consequent fatigue for at least the last 3 or 4 weeks (it may have been longer). I don’t know why it started, I haven’t changed hardly anything I’ve been doing. I did increase my methylfolate a little, but also increased my potassium, and I don’t think the achiness is related to that.

I started using ½ teaspoon of baking soda a day maybe 10 days ago to see if it would help. When I checked my Ph, the baking soda brought it up into the alkaline range rather quickly, but did nothing for the achiness. It also raised my BP by over 20 points!

It’s an all over body achiness unrelated to anything I’ve done. It isn’t PEM. Though I do get achy with PEM, this is different. And my energy is quite a bit lower than normal with this achiness.

This morning I decided to try lemon juice, supposed to be alkalinizing, instead of baking soda, hoping it would help lower my BP. I added 3 tablespoons of lemon juice to a glass of water and drank it all before breakfast (using a straw to protect the enamel on my teeth). Much to my surprise within about an hour the achiness had dissipated, and my energy had picked up! I felt better than I have in at least 3 weeks. The lemon juice apparently did something that the baking soda couldn’t. Although when I checked my Ph, it had only gone up a little (unlike with the baking soda), but I felt much better. And my BP went down to about 125/75 which it has not been for quite awhile!

So - any ideas as to what might be going on? I had been starting to feel kind of desperate, not knowing if I could get the energy I used to be able to count on, on a good day, back. The other day I spent all day in my recliner. I wasn’t crashed, but I was achy all over and energy was low, and so really was not able to do anything, and also was very afraid of crashing since my energy was so low to begin with.

So I’m going to stick with the lemon juice. I actually just took another dose, hoping to raise my Ph. I really don’t know what’s going on here, though I am very glad I seem to have somehow hit upon a solution! Ideas anyone?

@PatJ, I’m tagging you here. I think you take baking soda regularly, and just wondered if you might have any ideas about what’s going on with my poor body that lemon juice apparently helped resolve, unlike baking soda --
 

Wolfcub

Moderator
Messages
3,038
Likes
7,595
Location
SW UK
I am sorry @Mary that you have been feeling so rough.
The lemon juice experiment was very interesting. I don't know very much about all this, so can't be of much help to you. All I do know is that lemon juice is supposed to be very good for the liver, especially when taken in hot water first thing in the morning.

Kind thoughts, and I hope you get some clues and answers. :)
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
1,770
Likes
2,854
Maybe test some other acid (vinegar? malic acid?) to see if it has the same effect? Maybe it's not the acid component in the lemon juice. I'm not sure how a typical VitC tablet (ascorbic acid) compares with a glass of lemon juice (citric + ascorbic) in terms of total hydrogen atoms available.
 

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
Thanks @Wolfcub! :) Yes, lemon juice is very good for the liver. Some 15 years ago my liver was very toxic, it really screwed up my digestion, and I was very tired and felt awful - poisoned - I had to do a major liver detox which helped enormously. Anyways I would drink lemon juice very frequently - it always felt very good. I know my liver's in good shape now, but there is something going on with my Ph and maybe something else, I just don't know.

But today I was able to get a couple of things done that I've been putting off because I just didn't have the energy. And they weren't huge tasks but I just didn't have any energy to spare! So I'm crossing my fingers, and will keep up the lemon juice! :thumbsup:
 

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
Maybe test some other acid (vinegar? malic acid?)
Good suggestion! Years ago malic acid helped me with energy but then it stopped helping. But maybe it would help again. I think apple cider vinegar is also recommended for alkalinity, so I could try that too, though I think it's easier to get down lemon juice!
I'm not sure how a typical VitC tablet (ascorbic acid) compares with a glass of lemon juice (citric + ascorbic) in terms of total hydrogen atoms available.
I don't think vitamin C would help. Two years ago or so when I was tapering off of lorazepam, I learned that vitamin C is a good scavenger of excess glutamate. So I started taking high dose vitamin C during the day and night and sure enough it helped with the killer insomnia from the taper. But after awhile I realized I was waking up achy and tired and then finally realized the high dose vitamin C was making me acidic. So then I started using baking soda in the morning, and that took away the achiness and fatigue.

But this time around, baking soda did nothing for the achiness and fatigue. Also I'm not taking high dose vitamin C any more. I don't know where all this sudden achiness came from. All I know is the lemon juice helped, a lot, today, so am hoping it will keep helping! But I think I'm going to order some malic acid when I next order supplements - I was thinking of doing this before this current problem arose --
 

Wolfcub

Moderator
Messages
3,038
Likes
7,595
Location
SW UK
I have also heard that a vegetarian diet is alkaline for the body. I can say that works, as testing my urine samples, on a week with totally vegetarian/vegan foods I was rather too alkaline.
When I went back to more fish/eggs protein that evened out a bit.


That idea wouldn't suit everyone; for instance anyone with food intolerances, or low carb/paleo, or someone who depends on meats for protein etc. But it is interesting.
 

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
@Wolfcub - I can't do vegetarian, I do need meat! I probably need more vegetables, though I get in as many as I can. I have limited energy for prep and cooking so rely a lot on frozen veggies. But it also seems like something has changed - I didn't used to feel achy all the time like I have the last several weeks. I don't know where it's coming from, I haven't changed my diet or supplements (just a tiny bit on the supps). It's another mystery of this DD! :sluggish:
 

Judee

Senior Member
Messages
867
Likes
2,168
Location
Great Lakes
I think it was the citric acid in the lemon juice. It's part of the Krebs cycle and a while ago I was trying to isolate what in Zevia Cola helped me feel a bit better. When I tried just citric acid powder I could suddenly open my eyes more easily (droopy/sleepy feeling was gone) and did feel a tiny bit more energetic.

It messed up my stomach though so I couldn't keep going with it. :(

Anyway, just a thought.
 

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
Thanks @Judee - that could be it, or part of it at least - I just read that lemons also have malic acid, which can be very helpful for energy. Could you try a malic acid supplement? Also, I wonder if your stomach would tolerate plain lemon juice in water better than citric acid powder. Just a thought.

Although I'm still puzzled by why it made the achiness go away. I'm sure there's a scientist among our members here who might have the answer to that! :nerd:
 

Judee

Senior Member
Messages
867
Likes
2,168
Location
Great Lakes
Thanks for the info about the malic acid. Unfortunately, that makes me feel wired and hyper. Plus, I have a lemon allergy so my nose plugs up. I think my citric acid powder is from corn which I can take once in a while. When we have a recipe that calls for lemon we use that or tapioca vitamin c which also tastes lemony. :)

I sent my sister a malic acid/magnesium supplement to help with her fibromyalgia because it's suppose to help with that so those are good ideas.
 

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
mary, do you have fibro? when im achey, thats what i blame it on. i would love to try your experiment with the lemon juice. but that would bother my ibs, im sure. also doesnt our cfs make us achey?
good luck, joanie
I don't have fibro but there is a connection between ME/CFS and often excessive lactic acid which makes us achy, although I don't know if this achiness was due to lactic acid build up - I hadn't done anything physically to produce that much lactic acid, every day, for 3 or 4 weeks. I know some members will get a lactic acid build up if they just walk across the room. I'm not that sensitive. I will get achy if I do things physically but I hadn't done enough activity, I don't think, to bring it on. Although one day I spent 20 minutes washing the kitchen floor (with a mop) and my leg and arm muscles were very sore for 3 days afterwards and this was just very unusual for me to get that sore from washing the floor. So maybe it does have something to do with lactic acid production, I just don't know.

You might try baking soda, 1/4 or 1/2 teaspoon in a cup of water between meals and see if it helps your achiness. It did for me at one time, but not this time.
 

Mary

Moderator
Messages
8,059
Likes
16,754
Location
Southern California
I have been extra achy lately too. I've been thinking that it is just the progression of the ME/CFS. Even light stretching makes me achy later on. :(

The way I described it to my new doctor is that it's like being bruised all over without the actual visible bruise.
Sorry to hear that! You sound very like how I have been, and I was worrying a little too if it was a progression of ME/CFS. I don't know if the lemon juice will keep working for me, will see.

Have you tested your Ph? It might give you a clue as to what's going on, though it didn't really with me. But you might try baking soda - 1/4 or 1/2 teaspoon in 8 ounces of water on an empty stomach. It helped me at one time when vitamin C was making me acidic. The baking soda worked great to get rid of the achiness and fatigue - it just didn't do anything this go round. But it might help you.
 

BeADocToGoTo1

Senior Member
Messages
328
Likes
592
Sorry to read this. Could it just be you are fighting a virus that is going around? Much of my family have had it the last few weeks.

Regarding the baking soda, that reminds me of a quick and dirty way to check if your stomach acid is acidic enough. Do you burp within a few minutes of drinking it? If your stomach acid is too alkaline it can cause malabsorption issues, bacterial and yeast overgrowth issues.

Lemon juice could be helping with digestion, bile production and a source of potassium and vit C.
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
773
Likes
1,305
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Hi Mary.
I use around 4 lemons a day. It's necessary part of my regime.
I never worked out if its alkalising.....helping uric cycle or the detox properties of it. Could even be the citric in it.
All I know its incredible stuff. I use it with very fizzy sparkling water like san Pellegrino...etc...you get a faster and more.efficient delivery than standard tap water.
 

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
150
Likes
253
Location
USA
Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, bicarbonates are also called buffers, the body naturally creates buffers that actually buffer the acidity that the body creates, too many acids reduce cellular energy. There is also magnesium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate but sodium bicarbonate seems to be quite effective, at least for me. Problem is that baking soda does contain sodium which will raise blood pressure.

Sodium is antagonistic to both potassium and magnesium. Sodium works inside the cell and along with calcium is considered constrictive, while potassium and magnesium are the opposite. Sodium gets high then it can counteract magnesium thus raising blood pressure.

Other posters mention liver toxicity or liver stagnation which is/was a problem for me. If the liver is stagnated then toxins have a problem getting released from the body. Incidentally, magnesium participates in the generation of glutathione which is a key chemical that the liver uses to detoxify, glutathione is also used by the immune system.
 

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,503
Likes
4,753
I don't have fibro but there is a connection between ME/CFS and often excessive lactic acid which makes us achy, although I don't know if this achiness was due to lactic acid build up - I hadn't done anything physically to produce that much lactic acid, every day, for 3 or 4 weeks. I know some members will get a lactic acid build up if they just walk across the room. I'm not that sensitive. I will get achy if I do things physically but I hadn't done enough activity, I don't think, to bring it on. Although one day I spent 20 minutes washing the kitchen floor (with a mop) and my leg and arm muscles were very sore for 3 days afterwards and this was just very unusual for me to get that sore from washing the floor. So maybe it does have something to do with lactic acid production, I just don't know.

You might try baking soda, 1/4 or 1/2 teaspoon in a cup of water between meals and see if it helps your aLchiness. It did for me at one time, but not this time.
Lactic acid can also increase as a result of changes in the gut. So I would recommend trying a FODMAP diet. Resveratrol and ALA in large amounts are the keys though. I will write a blog about this soon.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
3,882
Likes
11,554
Location
Canada
lemon juice, supposed to be alkalinizing
From RichVanK in a ProHealth post:
I realize that it sounds paradoxical that lemon juice, which is acidic, would alkalinize the urine, but it does, because the citrate is metabolized by the citric acid cycle, leaving ions that are base-formers.

I actually just took another dose, hoping to raise my Ph
Another method is to combine lemon juice with a little baking soda to get the benefits of both.

From this EarthClinic article with various alkalizing formulas:
One whole lime [or lemon] freshly squeezed. Keep adding baking soda slowly bit by bit until the fizz stops. Then you will add water to one half glass. This is often taken either twice a day on an empty stomach, once in the morning and once before bedtime.

Note: Basically, lemon/lime juice idea is also good for people who fear some sodium retention issues. Since the lemon is already high on potassium, adding the sodium to neutralize the acid along the way will also create a sodium potassium balance.
The lemon juice apparently did something that the baking soda couldn’t
I know my liver's in good shape now
Maybe your liver is in good shape but, as others have suggested, if you have a virus then maybe it's temporarily overwhelmed with trying to get rid of something in your blood?

but there is something going on with my Ph
Kidney problems can lead to pH imbalances.

high dose vitamin C was making me acidic
I take Nutribiotic Sodium Ascorbate powder. It's pH neutral and has the lowest amount of sodium among the sodium ascorbate products I've compared it with. The bottle claims that the sodium used isn't combined with chloride so it won't increase BP.