PEMF device experiences

[kelly8]

I got my ICES PEMF machine about two weeks ago and wanted to let you guys know about my progress....

I ordered this because my dr thinks I might be hyper electro sensitive. I was able to get less disturbed sleep by unplugging the wifi in our house. I figured if I was that sensitive to this stuff the machine might actually help me.

Dr. Robert Dennis, who made the device, said in an interview that he thought it worked by reducing inflammation. He recommend using it on the oldest injury you have first. Mine is scoliosis in my back since I was a kid. There is one spot in particular that hurts terribly. I've been going to chiro for the last 5 years and it helps but it doesn't go away.

The first day I just tried that one spot. After about half an hour I had less pain in that spot. I did feel a bit spacy but it was amazing to not have that pain. I wasn't ready to believe in it yet as it was only the first day. So the next day I did my back and then my neck (I have a loose vertebrate in my neck that is also pretty painful, from childhood). I felt pretty good that night and slept really well.

Day 3 I got really brave and got out a headband and used it on my head. (I have had about 7 concussions in my life) I used it slightly above and in front of the ears. I felt really spacy but later in the day I was remembering things from my past that I thought was gone forever. I was able to recall these things in a story to my co-worker. Usually, I can't carry on conversations at work very well so this was great.

Since then I've used it on my back, neck, head, adrenal gland (I have an adrenal tumor and pain on that side), and my knee cap (where I fractured my knee cap almost 20 years ago).

My knee cap is so much better. I actually felt sick this morning when I took my hydrocortisone medication. It almost felt like I didn't need as much. I managed to dig up all 12 of my dahlia bulbs by myself! And watch my son. I also made dinner and built an ikea stand that I haven't gotten to for months and even did some sewing. I don't feel fatigued or tired right now which usually I wouldn't get through any of that and would be exhausted just going down the stairs to get outside.

I do feel really spacy, but I also feel really happy. For me that is amazing because I usually feel pretty depressed and have to force myself to think positively.

This little device has been amazing for me. It is making me realize though that I must be very sensitive to electro magnetic radiation and I probably need to take some measures to protect myself from excess radiation to continue to feel better. I'm going to let my cousin borrow it for a couple of days and see if I can maintain this....

 

[PatJ]

Congratulations @kelly8! I'm glad to hear it's helping you.

What power level are you using for the various places on your body? Have you tried stacking the coils to increase the intensity of the magnetic field, or other ways of varying the placement to see if helps even more? And have you noticed if it lowers your blood pressure, especially after using it on your head?

 

[kelly8]

Hi @PatJ ,
I haven't played with it enough to see if there is a difference. I don't have a way to monitor my blood pressure so I'm not sure if it does this.

I do want to say that the side effects I've had are slight headache, dizziness, and light headedness. I've also felt pretty spacy. Also when I first used this device and the pain went away on my back I started noticing more pain in other areas. I think that I was so focused on my upper back pain that I didn't notice all the other areas until it went away. After that I kind of followed up with treatment on all the spots.

I'm just really impressed with the energy though. I've backed off on my head because of the spacyness. I only used medium on my head placed slightly forward and above the ears. On my back I did side by side taped to the back. I started at medium and quickly went to x (which I think is xtra high).

It seemed like the best results were when the body was in the middle of the two coils. I remember this from the interview they did with dr Robert Dennis. So I tried this on my left adrenal and my knee. I can't figure out how to get my spine in the middle hence the side by side but I may have to look up how to attack the coils and try it that way.

I'm going to keep this up and I'm trying to get rid of extra electro magnetic radiation in our home. If that gives me an opportunity to heal I'll do anything.

 

[PatJ]

I just found an interesting and very useful comment from the creator of the ICES PEMF device on one of his YouTube videos:

It is also designed to minimize "accommodation", which means to minimize the effect that the cells will grow accustomed to ICES stimulation, and because of this they will not become less responsive over time. For example, over a few weeks most pain meds become less effective, so over time you need to take a larger dose to get the same reduction in pain. This is not true with ICES because of this novel anti-accommodation design feature. Based on our beta testing we find that ICES can be used daily for years without losing effectiveness or requiring higher doses. So, unlike drugs and chemicals, ICES does not lose effectiveness over time. This non-accommodation feature is one of the patented features of ICES technology and distinguishes it from all other PEMF and TENS systems so far as I know. All of this happens automatically, so you don't even have to think about it.

 

[PatJ]

Here is some basic PEMF device usage info from Dr. Pawluk.

 

[frozenborderline]

Hello guys I'm just making a very quick post on PEMF because it might help some people. Sorry if it isn't that high quality of a post.. fatigue you know. I've been heavily experimenting with the device for around 3 months but I had it for a year total.

http://selfhacked.com/2015/03/13/ic...-fatigue-and-inflammation-cure-upgraded-pemf/

NOTES:

- When I had extremely bad brain fog, the device would often clear it around 50% fairly quickly. Still had pretty bad fog though. This was when I first got it, before I started combining it with nutritional supplements.​

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- The device gives a pulsing sensation that travels along nerves. Sometimes I can feel a pulse in certain brain regions when using it on different limbs, so it can travel a long way. You can also feel it lightly pulse on flesh but it doesn't travel as far.​

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- Don't think the device feels impressive though, it is just like someone taps you repeatedly and that sensation travels a little bit into you. You can feel it in the brain though which is pretty cool.​

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- A lot of the side effects from the device may be from stimulating healing and causing refeeding syndrome. Sometimes I'd immediately get b6, zinc, potassium etc deficiency symptoms after using the device for 15 minutes. After a month or so of that I now seem to be stuck on b12 for a long time, no more potassium deficiencies.​

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- The device seems to help hasten the recovery of "deadzones" of nerves. For example, when I push myself way past my limit during my 1 day of work, my shoulder and neck nerves on the right side seem to lose a lot of function, muscles become weak etc. Nutritional supplementation + this device can stimulate the nerves a bit and help them restart faster. It is like how massage can restart muscles which are weak/sore/cramped.​

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- Having low potassium levels makes the device give eye/face/brain twitches along with the pulsing of the device, I hypothesize it shunts potassium in and out of cells which can create a temporarily potassium deficiency.​

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Having high magnesium, potassium etc is very important with this device. Otherwise you can get twitching muscles, discomfort, fatigue you get closer to seizure threshold etc. Supplementing potassium in particular very quickly fixes this problem. I had this problem a lot before I figured it out.​

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- I am guessing it creates a charge gradient from electrostatic induction or something, which then moves ions in and out.​

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- Breathing like the Wim Hoff method seems to work well with it, if I breath heavily while the device is running, I can get saturated with oxygen to the point where I feel light headed in around half the time. I stay oxygen saturated for much longer too. This makes me wonder about synergy with hyperbaric oxygen chambers. http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof-method-revealed-how-to-consciously-control-your-immune-system/​

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Doing the wim hoff method is dam hard because my lungs get tired before I start getting dizzy with oxygen. But if you can breath hard for a long time it seems to lower systemic inflammation and brain fog quite a bit. I don't think wim hoff method controls the immune system or whatever, it improves oxygenation, and perhaps causes hormesis in the mitochondria through overactivation followed by underactivation.​

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- Resveratrol seems to work well with it.​

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- Aspirin seems to work well with it.​

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- Black pepper seems to work well with it.​

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- Having enough water seems to work well with it.​

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- I seem to be getting more consistent results with the device after starting heavy supplementation with a complete b vitamin protocol (magnesium, zinc, adenosylb12, methylb12 and the rest).​

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- I’m feeling a LOT of parallels to what people report with b12 protocols, detox protocols etc. In these the body goes in cycles, sometimes feels worse before getting better etc. The device feels the same way, sometimes it feels good, sometimes it goes nothing. I think it has synergy with b12 protocols, detox protocols etc.​

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- My consistent stack is resveratrol + black pepper + aspirin, always makes the device work pretty good if it isn’t working beforehand. I have a feeling the synergy is partly through anti-inflammatory/anti-oxidant pathways, but also through the mitochondria, All 3 drugs have an effect on mitochondria. Black pepper is touted to improve absorption of minerals because of its mitochondria uncoupler effects. Aspirin is a mitochondrial uncoupler too. Racetams, a few different herbs I tried, methylene blue, and a few other drugs I tried didn't have any noticeable synergy.​

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- I find that using combinations of supplements, wim hoff method, exercise, and this device, either stimulates refeeding syndrome and makes me feel bad, or makes me feel fairly good in terms of brain clarity / body well being. The device will often work alone, sometimes you need more things, sometimes it wont work at all.​

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- I think PEMF is a very whole body approach like exercise, diet, nutrition, sauna, cold showers etc. It effects most cells in the body and thus may work for a wide variety of diseases and sickness levels.​

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- I think exercise has some overlap with PEMF, both move fluids around in the body, stimulate tissues etc. Exercise can also help trigger refeeding syndrome in me. Both together is probably best.​

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Overall, the ICES PEMF device seems to be a +35% speed of recovery tool. It also seems to help stimulate reactivation of "deadzones" in the body. It may help people past roadblocks when the body isn't doing anything with nutrition. It can quickly lower some types of inflammation.

In my experience PEMF it isn't a cure to fatigue/inflammation, but it has potential to be a powerful tool.

It cost a shitload of money but I think overall it is still worth it. Buy rechargeable batteries.

In my experience supplementation, pemf, good diet, etc is all very expensive, which is a bit sad for people in some situations.

Healing is fighting uphill, I'm still not sure I'l heal, even if I seem to be absorbing supplements and slowly feeling better at the moment.

Unfortunate that there are no devices on the market that actually use the dc micro currents that Becker used in his research, detailed in the body electric. It seems that the exact right current is important for healing, one can’t just be vague about it. He used silver electrodes

 

[Chris]

@kelly8--many thanks for a very useful account of a promising device. I have downloaded some info from Micro-pulse that shows a side-by-side placement of the coils can work--is this what you used when treating your back, on coil each side of the spine--and did it seem to work well?

 

[Bowser]

This device has always been on the back of my mind. Dr. Dennis seems to have a lot of integrity. He was the original inventor of PEMF at NASA in the 1990's. Here is a quote from his website.

The original NASA TVEMF - PEMF systems were developed by Dr. Robert Dennis for NASA under contract in 1997 - 1998. Recently corrected NASA patents verify his status as original inventor. Four additional recent patents (1 2 3 4) demonstrate the recent advances that have been made since the original work at NASA, leading to modern ICES® DigiCeutical® technology developed in 2013 - 2014.

This fact alone lends a lot of credibility to this device compared to most other PEMF devices on the market. These other companies parrot a lot of pseudoscience.

I am wondering if this ICES-PEMF device could help in ligament repair for CCI, AAI, and related issues.

 

[Chris]

Have done a little further checking--looks as if the science is good, but the practicalities not so good--actually using those coils looks rather difficult, and there is a note somewhere on the site that they need periodic replacement--there is even a note saying that a coil tester comes with the device--any info?
Begins to sound like my Epson inkjet-cheap to buy, good printing, but those replacement cartridges....

 

[Wayne]

Begins to sound like my Epson inkjet-cheap to buy, good printing, but those replacement cartridges....

Hi @Chris, agree with you on those cartridges! We needed to purchase a new printer a couple years ago, and I went with one of Epson's new ECOTANK models. There's a more upfront cost for the printer, but the cost of ink compared to the replacement cartridges are negligible. We haven't filled it in about 2 years, and we've got an extra supply ready to go when it does need ink. Here's a LINK to the model we got. -- I think we got it on sale for about $300.

 

[perchance dreamer]

I really like this device from Sota, a Canadian-based company. It helps me with knee pain and sinus congestion:

https://www.sota.com/default.aspx?page=Magnetic-Pulser

My biofeedback therapist had told me about it. She had a client who had very painful abdominal adhesions after surgery. This device helped her a lot.

 

[Chris]

@kelly8 and debored13--read your interesting posts again, and listened to that interview with Dennis; have since bought and used an OMI mat and ring, and am a bit disappointed.

The interview with the ICES guy focused on orthopedic, local use, for which it seems designed. I think to aim at ME, a full-body experience, a good mat would seem a more appropriate device; has anyone had experience of either of the Vasindux units, which sound interesting, especially the Pro model, but are expensive (though less so than the iMRS and Bemer units?) I think Pawluck's current favourite BioBalance is ruled out by its use of basically sine-wave form.

 

[Momentum]

Today I was at the eye doctor, still trying to resolve headache and vision issues and I mentioned all the specialists I've been to in the last 6 months and besides having something to do with B's out of whack for years, and collagen challenges, I think I now have a vascular issue. He suggested trying the BEMER. He has one in his office (very forward thinking opt.). Anyway, he ran it for 8 minutes on a power of 3. I didn't feel much, but within 10 minutes started feeling worse.
When I got home I wanted to drink my hydrogen water (which has been helping me a lot the last few weeks) but didn't want to skew results of BEMER. Well, I continued to feel awful and didn't think about it being a possible herx so I didn't take any binders. I'm not thinking it was a herx, didn't seem like one.
Anyway, I waited 4 hours, and drank H2 water - several of them. Started feeling better right away.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to the why H2 is helping me, but the BEMER made me worse? It may help me put my puzzle together. Thanks!

Oh, I would think if these PEMF devices were so great, there would be a lot more people on here using one. We've all spent so much on tests, doctors, clinics, gadgets, gizmos, supplements and meds - I wouldn't dare drop $4k on another "wish".

 

[Momentum]

I'll add that earlier this Spring I was doing quite a bit of microcurrent and it wasn't helpful at all.
Over a decade ago, I purchased a Doug Staller coil machine, and used it for probably 18 months and while it did kill bugs and brings on herxes, it was far from a "cure". Had an opportunity to meet with the Boeing engineer who built the first "coil" machine and cured himself and his family of Lyme - decades ago. He was thoroughly stumped that it just isn't as effective as it was for him and his family.
I think our world is much more toxic now, less nutrients in our food and surrounded by EMFs. Plus whatever else.

 

[Learner1]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to the why H2 is helping me,

Not sure about your other questions, but theoretically, H2 hooks up with hydroxyl radicals (OH-) which then become water.