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Oxymatrine: What to expect with fatigue and how long? (And my on-going journey, info and questions.)

Jennifer J

Senior Member
Messages
997
Location
Southern California
I wanted to share that I have very positively responded to treatment with oxymatrine. After an initial worsening of symptoms, including cold sweats, fever, and vomiting, my energy has been restored. I went from functioning at about 35-40% to 70% within one day and have sustained that for one week so far. Two weeks ago I was housebound with constant bedrest. Yesterday, I washed my car, drove, and socialized. So far symptoms that remain: mild brain fog, headaches, mild should neck pain, loss of appetite, and insomnia. It feels like something switched in my immune system

@Diwi9, this is such good news! How wonderful. It's very encouraging and of course over joyed to hear of your improvement. :)
 

Jennifer J

Senior Member
Messages
997
Location
Southern California
After an initial worsening of symptoms, including cold sweats, fever, and vomiting, my energy has been restored. I went from functioning at about 35-40% to 70% within one day and have sustained that for one week so far.

Oh, two more questions for you @Diwi9, how long was your worsening of symptoms? And how long were you on it til you felt better? Thanks.
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
Oh, two more questions for you @Diwi9, how long was your worsening of symptoms? And how long were you on it til you felt better? Thanks.
I don't remember the exact days, but I was likely on Equilibrant for a week give or take and started to develop cold sweats...which I had for 4-5 days, then like a snap...one evening I just started feeling really good. I recently upped my dose to 2 pills 2x's per day and am having some worsening of symptoms, but it is very mild compared to the first round.
 

flitza

Senior Member
Messages
145
As an update to others interested in Equilibrandt, I wanted to share that I have very positively responded to treatment with oxymatrine. After an initial worsening of symptoms, including cold sweats, fever, and vomiting, my energy has been restored. I went from functioning at about 35-40% to 70% within one day and have sustained that for one week so far. Two weeks ago I was housebound with constant bedrest. Yesterday, I washed my car, drove, and socialized. So far symptoms that remain: mild brain fog, headaches, mild should neck pain, loss of appetite, and insomnia. It feels like something switched in my immune system as even my seasonal allergies have significantly reduced. I'm hoping to see Dr. Chia, he's on to something, at least for my situation.

Wow! What a great response! Good for you!

How long have you been on it?

Definitely recommend Dr. Chia. He's a real Doc! Cares for his patients. Just have to wait a long time to get to see him.
 

Charles555nc

Senior Member
Messages
572
Bought oxymatrine and started at 5 pills on an empty stomach, no reaction at all over the last week. Maybe its because I was treated with antivirals like Famvir...
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
I'm still on oxymatrine, using the Equillibrant version. I was unable to increase my dose to 3 pills 2x's per day. I tried, but the flu-like side effects were bad, so I dropped back down to 2 pills 2x's per day and have stuck with that. A few weeks ago I started on desmopressin (my blood work showed I was deficient in vasopressin). I felt better immediately and have been able to resume some activities, like cooking full meals. Over the last two days I have gone on half hour walks, no PEM to follow...which is beyond amazing to me considering that I've spent months in bed. I am very cautious about sharing my experiences as we are all different. Progress is long and slow with this disease, if it comes at all. I have a sense that I have a teetering immune system, as I have experienced "remission" in the past. This may place me in a unique subset. I tend to do better during warmer weather, and so I do not know what to expect this winter. I have an appointment with Dr. Chia this fall.
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
Hi @ErdemX - I got what felt like a flu in the spring of 2009 after a vacation in Mexico. I never "recovered" from the flu and was sick for three years, but was mild. I slowly improved and then experienced a quasi-remission for about five years...some symptoms lingered, but life was closer to normal as long as I could rest (although winters were always difficult). I relapsed late last summer (2016), and am now moderate. I also take LDN and recently started on desmopressin. I consider all of these treatments as adding 5%. I do feel better, but truth be told still have energy limits and its a battle to figure those limits out, as it is easy to exceed energy limits when one feels better.
 
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Jennifer J

Senior Member
Messages
997
Location
Southern California
Hi. I'm finally able to gear up to order oxymatrine and start it. Need to put a few things in place first and hopefully not have any medical or life set backs in the mean time.

Have a couple of questions.

I saw Dr. Chia almost 3 yrs ago (I can't make it back to see him). He said for me to start at 100 mg. Cause I'm mainly bed bound, struggling, don't tolerate things, and don't have help, I'm thinking I ought to start lower, maybe 50 mg (or less). Can I start that low or lower?

Also, must the dose and increase be enough that I feel not well and can I soooo slowly increase with low amounts that I don't notice the possible undesirable effects?

Thank you if you have any experience and knowledge of this you can share.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
@Jennifer J, I should think that you can start at any dose level you like, and increase the dose at slowly as you like, at whatever pace suits you.
 

flitza

Senior Member
Messages
145
Hi. I'm finally able to gear up to order oxymatrine and start it. Need to put a few things in place first and hopefully not have any medical or life set backs in the mean time.

Have a couple of questions.

I saw Dr. Chia almost 3 yrs ago (I can't make it back to see him). He said for me to start at 100 mg. Cause I'm mainly bed bound, struggling, don't tolerate things, and don't have help, I'm thinking I ought to start lower, maybe 50 mg (or less). Can I start that low or lower?

Also, must the dose and increase be enough that I feel not well and can I soooo slowly increase with low amounts that I don't notice the possible undesirable effects?

Thank you if you have any experience and knowledge of this you can share.
i started per Dr.Chia on Equilibrant at 1/8 of a tab and increased every 2 weeks or so. I felt worse at the beginning but not intolerably so. After 1-2 months I started feeling better. At one point I increased a bit too fast and just felt really toxic so I decreased again. Now at 2 tabs/day will soon try to go to 3. I think you should also just go really slowly.
 

Jennifer J

Senior Member
Messages
997
Location
Southern California
Hi, @Hip and anyone that can answer (please) I have a couple of questions.

I now have oxymatrine. I want to start it.

Three concerns.

1) I want to get a flu shot. It takes a couple of weeks for the flu shot to settle in your system so it may be effective. How I'm timing this I wanted to start oxymatrine first for many reasons yet now I'm wondering if oxymatrine will mess with the flu shot taking or being as effective. Any thoughts?

2) The other is I'm struggling with being able to have food. Can't have delivery service for many reasons and lot of complications for many foods. I don't have or can find anyone to help me. I don't see how I can stretch not eating more than what I am. (I'm really not doing well the hours I don't have the food I need to eat.) If oxymatrine makes me worse and I can't get food I'm in trouble.

What I was wondering if I start oxymatrine and I'm worse in a way that I can't get food, how long when I cut back might it take that I can be alright enough to get some?

3) I have a 23 and Me test to do. Will taking oxymatrine affect the results of my sample?

Thank you but please to save all of our energies, I don't need food suggestions or how to get it or get help suggestions none of them work for me in my situation (too limited on cash for delivery services, no charge card or cell phone, can't find one person that can help me, and very limited on what I can eat with a little fridge that can't stay cold with more than 2 new items put in it at a time, and haven't been able to qualify for any service that delivers to the home bound. And I've called all the churches, volunteer places, etc. - they can't help me).

I really want to start oxymatrine and I hope I can tolerate it and it works for me just concerned cause I'm living on the edge and don't have any help.

Thanks for any knowledge or experience with these questions.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
@Jennifer J, I don't know the answer to (1), but I wouldn't have thought oxymatrine will interfere with the efficacy of the flu shot.

Regarding (2), oxymatrine can make you feel worse (more fatigue, brain fog, etc) before you get better, but whether that will impact digestion and food tolerance I don't know. One thing to remember is that you can control how much oxymatrine you take: some people react strongly to oxymatrine, so may need to start with just say ¼ tablet a day. So you can monitor any worsening of symptoms and adjust the dose downwards so that these symptoms are bearable.

(3) No, oxymatrine will not affect 23andme.
 
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Jennifer J

Senior Member
Messages
997
Location
Southern California
Thank you so much @Hip! You are so generous and helpful. :) :hug::hug:

Regarding question 2 what I was wondering was if I'm very weak, fatigued or dizzy with my oxmatrine dose, after I adjust my dose down how long do you think it might take til I'm back to base so I can try going to a grocery store?

Thanks if you (or anyone) has some knowledge about this.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
Regarding question 2 what I was wondering was if I'm very weak, fatigued or dizzy with my oxmatrine dose, after I adjust my dose down how long do you think it might take til I'm back to base so I can try going to a grocery store?

If you use the Alternative Medicine Solutions oxymatrine, you probably will not get the dizziness side effect: I only got dizziness from the White Tiger brand oxymatrine, which I believe contains both oxymatrine and matrine. But the Alternative Medicine Solutions oxymatrine (which does not contain matrine) did not cause any dizziness.

I also found that the dizziness from White Tiger oxymatrine only occurred for about an hour of so after taking the tablet.

If you are getting increased ME/CFS symptoms from oxymatrine, which are thought to be due to oxymatrine ramping up the antiviral immune response, I am not sure how long it would take for these to subside after lowing your dose, but I imagine it would be within a day or two.