Overmethylation and Arginine

[Peyt]

Hello All,
I am new to this forum and first of all I wanted to thank the organizers and all the contributors for doing such a great job.

A few weeks ago, I was diagnosed with being an Overmethylator(low Histamine). This became evident by a histamine test I took. I am also low in Zinc and have Pyrroluria.

Anyways, my question is, is amino acid l-Arginine suppose to help over-methylators?
The reason I ask is everytime I take that supplement, initally I feel good energy that allows me to go to the gym and work out and I also notice my sleep improves at night... However, after a few days I start getting a fever and cranker sores in my mouth in which I have to stop it..... Anyone can guess what happens here? I would really apprecite your feedback, thanks so much,

 

[PeterPositive]

Hi,
do you also know if you have low homocysteine? (e.g. < 6 μmol/L) That's usually a good marker for "overmethylation", although I still struggle with a precise definition. It may mean several things.

My definition is that with low homocysteine the production of glutathione will be impaired, but there are more problems related to that:
http://blog.vitalobjectives.com/2013/01/low-homocysteine-may-not-be-that-great.html

As regards arginine, how much do you take?
Arginine increases nitric oxide and expands blood vessels, I am not sure how arginine alone can make an important difference in energy production. Also it doesn't affect the methylation cycle directly as far as I know. Since it impacts the levels of nitric oxide it may help other routes but I am no expert on that, sorry.

 

[Peyt]

Hi,
do you also know if you have low homocysteine? (e.g. < 6 μmol/L) That's usually a good marker for "overmethylation", although I still struggle with a precise definition. It may mean several things.

My definition is that with low homocysteine the production of glutathione will be impaired, but there are more problems related to that:
http://blog.vitalobjectives.com/2013/01/low-homocysteine-may-not-be-that-great.html

As regards Arginine, how much do you take?
Arginine increases nitric oxide and expands blood vessels, I am not sure how arginine alone can make an important difference in energy production. Also it doesn't affect the methylation cycle directly as far as I know. Since it impacts the levels of nitric oxide it may help other routes but I am no expert on that, sorry.

Hi and thanks for your reply,
I may be low in homocysteine, but was never tested for it. My Histamine test came in at 38 and normal range is suppose to be 40-70 .

Regarding Arginine dosage, it was small amounts. I started with 1 cap which was 500mg, but when I noticed it gave me Cold sore and fever, I stopped and then started a week later on 250mg. Same thing! I even tried Citrulline which is the persecutor to Arginine, and same thing!(just took a little longer for symptoms to come back).......

One thing I suspect is that I have excess sulfur. I have never been tested for it but seem to have the symptoms. I have trouble digesting certain proteins (especially proteins in grains) and seem to do well when I take Zinc which from what I understand is suppose to reduce excess sulfur. I was also diagnosed with a digestion disorder called SIBO(small intestine bacterial overgrowth) which explained all my food sensitivities to Gluten and .....
I am curious to find out if the excess sulfur in the system is possibly linked to my trouble with taking Argnine. I think Arginine is a sulfur containing amino acid. And if that is the case, is there any possible ways to correct it?
Thanks so much
Peyt.

 

[helen1]

Arginine can reactivate dormant herpes viruses. This happened to me when I tried arginine and sounds like that's what happened to you too. Many people have dormant herpes, I think I read over half of the population.

 

[minkeygirl]

I take molybdenum to lower my sulfur. My doc said 100-300 mcg/ day.

 

[Peyt]

I take molybdenum to lower my sulfur. My doc said 100-300 mcg/ day.

Wow, this makes sense since i used to take molybdenum and did well with it, but never knew why it made me feel better. I am gonna get some and start gain , thanks !

 

[minkeygirl]

YW. I talked to her yesterday and she wants me to continue it.

 

[Peyt]

YW. I talked to her yesterday and she wants me to continue it.

btw, may I ask how you found out you had high sulfur? did you use those test strips they sell on amazon?

 

[minkeygirl]

@Peyt I did 23andME and it showed I have the CBS mutations. We discussed a way to test it, and I started a thread here somewhere but there doesn't seem to be an accurate test for that. I was told the strips on amazon were not really for humans.

I can't find the tread though.

 

[Peyt]

Thanks wo much Mink,
Was this the post? http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/treating-cbs-mutation.24968/page-2

After reading that post I am realizing I have a lot more to discover about myself. The test I did only told me if I was over or under methylated. But I have no idea if I have the CBS mutation or SUOX or other genes! ... well, at least I know I have some kind of a problem with Sulfur.

BTW, I see in that post that your Doc had recommended to take L-Ornithine. Did this actually help you? The reason I ask is that I believe L-arginine turns into L-Ornithine or vise versa!

 

[minkeygirl]

That was a really old thread right after I got my 23andMe results. I asked about the testing a month or two ago.

That was not me taking the L-Ornithine because I had not seen a doc at that point.

BTW I do not get nor will I ever get methylation. I rely on the smart people here to help me with stuff I don't understand.

 

[Peyt]

Thanks again for your reply Mink,
May I ask which supplements are working for you?
I am currently taking Zinc and B6(in for of 5P5) and EPO which is working well for me. Just wondering how close is your treatment protocal to what I am taking that is working for me.

 

[minkeygirl]

I have been taking 1000 mcg MB12 for a few years. I just added 1000 mcg HB12 however when I run out I'm going to switch to Adenosylcobalamin.

I am taking 100 mcg Solgar Mfolate but am raising it by 100 mcgs each week. I am adding 100 mgs of l-carnitine fumarate. I also take 300 mgs potassium 3x/day and will increase that as I raise the dose of the Mfolate.

I take Life Extension Only Trace minerals for my osteopenia along with other bone building stuff. Omega 3, I forget what else, a crap load. Nothing has really made a difference in how I feel in any substantial way.

 

[Peyt]

I have been taking 1000 mcg MB12 for a few years. I just added 1000 mcg HB12 however when I run out I'm going to switch to Adenosylcobalamin.

I am taking 100 mcg Solgar Mfolate but am raising it by 100 mcgs each week. I am adding 100 mgs of l-carnitine fumarate. I also take 300 mgs potassium 3x/day and will increase that as I raise the dose of the Mfolate.

I take Life Extension Only Trace minerals for my osteopenia along with other bone building stuff. Omega 3, I forget what else, a crap load. Nothing has really made a difference in how I feel in any substantial way.

Oh wow, sorry to hear nothing has made a substantial difference,
So I guess I need to be more thankful for the test I took for Pyrroluria
and Histamine, because my life has improved alot since i got my results back and started adjusting my supplements in accordance to it 3 weeks ago,
Here is the test that helped me: http://pyroluriatesting.com/shop/metabolic-panel-w-clinical-consultation/

I was already taking B12/folate prior to this test and I am continuing to take that as well. I don't do well with Omega 3 and in fact need to stay away from it(according to my test results). I do well with Omega 6 and that's why I take EPO (evening promise oil)

Wish you all health.
God Bless
Peyt

 

[minkeygirl]

The only things so far that have made any difference are antivirals and immune modulators. It's way too soon to tell about the methylation.

 

[stevesayshi]

Arginine can reactivate dormant herpes viruses. This happened to me when I tried arginine and sounds like that's what happened to you too. Many people have dormant herpes, I think I read over half of the population.

It is almost certainly this. I had the same problem after a week on arginine, which sucked because it had been helping. The connection is widely documented, e.g.:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Herpes_Arginine.aspx

I started to supplement with acetyl glutathione for a while and can now take arginine without getting cold sores. Glutathione is anti-herpes virus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16787218/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8540746/

 

[Peyt]

It is almost certainly this. I had the same problem after a week on arginine, which sucked because it had been helping. The connection is widely documented, e.g.:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Herpes_Arginine.aspx

I started to supplement with acetyl glutathione for a while and can now take arginine without getting cold sores. Glutathione is anti-herpes virus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16787218/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8540746/

interesting you mention Glutathione, because according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutathione Glutathione reduces disulfate bonds (again has something with reducing sulfate/sulfur) .... so I wonder if Arginine increases the sulfate bonds and Glutathione and molybdenum reduce it and thus bring it back to balance.
Very interesting and thankful for all your replies.