(Norway) Lightning Process talk cancelled after protests from the ME Association

mango

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Landmark was supposed to give a talk on Lightning Process at RBUP (the regional center for child and youth psychiatry) in Nydalen, Norway. The talk was cancelled thanks to the protests by the Norwegian ME Association.

Dagens Medisin: Avlyste foredrag etter klage fra ME-foreningen
Live Landmark skulle holde foredrag om Lightning Process for RBUP Øst og Sør. Etter at ME-foreningen klaget på saken avlyste RBUP foredraget.
http://www.dagensmedisin.no/artikler/2016/04/22/avlyste-lp-foredrag-etter-klage-fra-me-foreningen/

Based on Google Translate's version:
Lecture cancelled after appeal from the ME Association

Live Landmark was supposed to give a talk on Lightning Process for RBUP East and South. After the ME Association complained RBUP canceled the lecture.

Published: 2016-04-22 6:00

CANCELED: LP instructor Live Landmarks lecture on Lightning Process was canceled. - I think academic debate should be characterized by open debate, she says.

The Regional Centre for Child and Adolescent Mental Health in Region East and South had invited Live Landmark to give a lecture on mental training Lightning Process and ME in April. Landmark is, according to her own website, mental trainer, lecturer and course instructor.

The lecture was to be held in a so-called KAT café [KAT = CBT in Norwegian -mango]. The main audience was, according to the organizer, therapists at BUP [Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services], but the course was open to all pre-registrants.

Cancelled
The lecture was canceled.

- RBUP has in its mission to be responsive and to engage in dialogue with NGOs. It was a letter from ME Association that got us to re-evaluate the program, says Eyvind Elgesem, acting director of the RBUP East and South.

Commercial company
Live Landmark refers to mail exchange with RBUP and that there was expressed concern about unfortunate media coverage if they would conduct the lecture.
- Later I got another explanation, namely that the lecture was canceled because I am commercial entity. But I was just going to give a lecture and not to enter into a collaboration. RBUP is also associated with several commercial operators, so this falls on stony ground, says Landmark.

She asks if it is correct that a public agency like RBUP shall be pressured to the extent that they are canceling an event on short notice, because a user organization exerts pressure.

In needs if knowledge
ME Association writes in their letter that you offer alternative treatment, which is not offered by the public health services - do they have a point here?

- LP is not treatment, but training in a mental exercise where participants learn to identify and influence thoughts, feelings and bodily symptoms. RBUP is a public body working in education, and will come up with new methods and approaches. Many people with CFS diagnosis using LP and cognitive therapists therefore need to know what LP is, she says.

She believes academic debate should be characterized by open debate.

- It's funny that the ME Association is working against sharing information about anything that may be useful for patients, despite an urgent need for treatment. Putting a muzzle on me is a democratic issue and should not be supported by a public agency, she says.

Critical input
Elgesem says the reason they invited Landmark basically was that many patients have to assess whether they should go on the LP course, and want advice on this. Landmarks lecture was one of several lectures related to the treatment of children and adolescents with ME.

- Are you being subjected to pressure?
- ME Association had critical input to all our events. We considered the totality of the event and every single bit of it, and decided to cancel the part with Landmark because she is a major commercial player in a controversial field. The other schemes we chose to maintain, despite the ME Association's concern, he said.

- But you have several commercial partners?
- The reason for canceling is "cautiousness when cooperating with commercial actors", not that we shouldn't do it at all, he said.

Culpable
In their letter to RBUP the ME Association writes, among other things, that RBUP Eastern and Southern will be co-responsible if ME-ill children and young people enter into this training program. The disease can worsen for some and it can have drastic effects on the individual in the long term, says the letter.

Olav Osland, Secretary General of the ME Association, said the association is skeptical of LP because they believe it may aggravate the condition for many, partly based on a separate user survey.

- We can not sit and watch the method being presented by the Ministry of Health as a possible alternative for ME patients when we know how unsafe the method can be, he says.

Conflicts of interest: Live Landmark's LP instructor lectured and conferences, and she has written the book "Wake me when it's over."
 

Valentijn

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LP instructor Live Landmarks lecture on Lightning Process was canceled. - I think academic debate should be characterized by open debate, she says.
There's a big difference between an "open debate" and a one-sided lecture from a quack with a huge financial interest.

Somehow I doubt she wants anything even resembling open debate, and would prefer the LP approach of demanding a lack of dissent even in our thoughts.
 

Chrisb

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Except that its not about them being delicate, its a ploy with very long standing in politics for silencing dissent and debate
This is a useful insight alex.. I had never before seen the "vexatious" issue in the broader context. It seems to have become impossible to have a serious discussion on some substantive issues without being accused of some form of "ism" or "phobia" or "ness". At this point the diversion tactic will have succeeded.

It would be interesting to analyse the stages of the process to enable the ploy to be preempted by stating in advance the nature and manner of the likely attack.

It seems to run along the lines first ascribe to someone words they have not uttered; then, views they do not hold; then, lump them together with people they do not support; then, accuse them of being likely to undertake actions they have never contemplated.

Do they run courses on this?
 
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- LP is not treatment, but training in a mental exercise where participants learn to identify and influence thoughts, feelings and bodily symptoms. RBUP is a public body working in education, and will come up with new methods and approaches. Many people with CFS diagnosis using LP and cognitive therapists therefore need to know what LP is, she says.

She believes academic debate should be characterized by open debate.

- It's funny that ME Association is working towards sharing information about anything that may be useful for patients, despite an urgent need for treatment. Putting a muzzle on me is a democratic issue and should not be supported by a public agency, she says
So if 'LP is not a treatment' why in the last paragraph is she mentioning 'urgent need for treatment' for patients?

How about we 'unmuzzle' her and invite her over to Phoenix Rising for an 'open debate'.:rofl:
 

Kalliope

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So if 'LP is not a treatment' why in the last paragraph is she mentioning 'urgent need for treatment' for patients?

How about we 'unmuzzle' her and invite her over to Phoenix Rising for an 'open debate'.:rofl:
Not only has she been muzzled, but she's also shared - on social media - that being prohibited to advertise for LP at The Regional Centre for Child and Adolescent Mental Health is a matter of freedom of speech.

She's by the way a journalist, author, blogger, occasionally writes for two medical magazines, writes debate articles on ME and LP quite often in general media, has a website, lectures for students of medicine and has quite a few keen followers, among them several health care workers.
 
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alex3619

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A study of logic tells us when someone is using fallacious argument, but often this is in a political environment. So a study of some parts of politics, public-relations and psychology (three p's?) as already mentioned, may be helpful in determining what to do about it.
 

Art Vandelay

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Except that its not about them being delicate, its a ploy with very long standing in politics for silencing dissent and debate.
Exactly. It usually seems to occur when their opponent is dastardly enough to bring facts and logic to the debate (eg, when David Tuller took on that hapless Norwegian chap on twitter).