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No XMRV found in spinal fluid

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,273
Location
Ashland, Oregon
they didn't find XMRV in CSF by PCR.

Thanks ixchelkalki for posting this. I was surprised they didn't find any other viruses:

Schutzer and his team analyzed spinal fluid using specialized Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) techniques that amplified nucleic acid present in the fluid, and found no evidence of XMRV. Other common viruses also appeared to be absent.

I thought it was a good article; I liked these comments:

while XMRV does not appear to be directly associated with CFS in the central nervous system, other substances found in spinal fluid do have an association.

I thought the following at the beginning of the article was a little disconcerting:

(CFS), a condition affecting as many as four million Americans and marked by symptoms that include a sense of weariness that sleep does not improve and difficulty with memory and concentration.

Sense of weariness??? I wish that was all I had!!!
cheeky%20grin.gif
 

ixchelkali

Senior Member
Messages
1,107
Location
Long Beach, CA
Sense of weariness??? I wish that was all I had!!!

Yeah, I pretty much hated that line, too. It's like saying "Leukemia, a disease marked by symptoms that include swollen glands and tiredness," or "Myocardial infarction, which can cause shortness of breath and general malaise."
 
Messages
49
That "sense of weariness" bothered me as well, in fact that's got to be one of the worst descriptions I've seen yet (not counting the psych stuff). Weariness is what I USED to feel decades ago when I mowed our lawn in 90 degree Texas heat and then came inside and made dinner and cleaned the kitchen. What I feel NOW is pretty much hellish. I'll take weary (as well as Texas heat) any day.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,873
when they say they didnt find any other viruses, do they mean new ones, or even the herpes ones? cuz if they didnt even see HHV6 in any of the samples, i have to wonder about the study...
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
when they say they didnt find any other viruses, do they mean new ones, or even the herpes ones? cuz if they didnt even see HHV6 in any of the samples, i have to wonder about the study...

Spot on Daffodil, most of us have one or another or even all of the herpes viruses, not a study to take seriously I don't think based on that fact alone never mind anythng else.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,873
yea but so many negative studies now....i am starting to really worry about the xmrv theory.. i know its a retrovirus though....but which one!?

i know dr. mikovits has found XMRV in spinal fluid..she told me long ago
 

Ecoclimber

Senior Member
Messages
1,011
Hold on Folks, to the best of my knowledge this abstract shouldn't have been released. There is more to it than meets the eye. Don't get too upset about it until I check my sources!
 

ixchelkali

Senior Member
Messages
1,107
Location
Long Beach, CA
Hold on Folks, to the best of my knowledge this abstract shouldn't have been released. There is more to it than meets the eye. Don't get too upset about it until I check my sources!

Thanks, Eco. The article says "Embargo expired: 4/5/2011 5:00 PM EDT." I look forward to hearing your backstory.
 

Ecoclimber

Senior Member
Messages
1,011
This is the most recent information:
The article and the forum thread alluded to above, is about an earlier study. I just got off the horn with Dr. Tao Liu, one of the authors of the study below.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0017287



There is additional research in the pipeline on this study. I can't be anymore specific than that, sorry. So the study and the forum thread mentioned in the above postings are from an earlier research study. So you can chill out for now. :)
http://www.newswise.com/articles/chr...nervous-system
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showt...-other-viruses

I haven't been monitoring the forum that much. It sort of freaked me out on the posting of this thread.

Eco
 

ixchelkali

Senior Member
Messages
1,107
Location
Long Beach, CA
This is the most recent information:
The article and the forum thread alluded to above, is about an earlier study. I just got off the horn with Dr. Tao Liu, one of the authors of the study below.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017287



There is additional research in the pipeline on this study. I can't be anymore specific than that, sorry. So the study and the forum thread mentioned in the above postings are from an earlier research study. So you can chill out for now. :)
http://www.newswise.com/articles/chr...nervous-system
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showt...-other-viruses

I haven't been monitoring the forum that much. It sort of freaked me out on the posting of this thread.

Eco

Eco, I understand you can't speak about an unpublished study, and I don't want you to. But I don't understand what you ARE saying (sorry, I'm confused :confused: ).

The PLoS ONE study you linked to was the CSF protein study. They didn't talk about looking for viruses at all in that one. The news story is about another CSF study, also done by Schutzer & Natelson (and presumably Liu), published in the Annals of Neurology.

Is the Annals of Neurology one still embargoed? Or is there yet another study in the pipeline?

And is the Annals of Neurology the one that the earlier thread was about? The one that disappeared?

I'm getting very confused.
 

Ecoclimber

Senior Member
Messages
1,011
Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I have to maintain strict confidentiality on this. There are additional research studies being conducted by some of the authors of the original PLoS ONE study involving xmrv as well, that has not been published to date. They were not party to the study mentioned here: http://www.newswise.com/articles/chr...nervous-system and the finding or conclusion that no xmrv was found in the spinal fluid in reference to the title of this thread. The earlier thread was about the research study published in the Annal of Neurology that appeared and disappeared. This is a totally different research project and is not the one mentioned in the Annal of Neurology.

I can't really say anymore than than the fact that there is a lot of ongoing research being conducted behind the scenes among a lot of scientists some known, others unknown even though things look as if they are not. It takes awhile for these matters to get resolved. There are twists and turns to every research study as in the case of Dr. Alter, for an example. I hope this clarifies any confusion.
 

ixchelkali

Senior Member
Messages
1,107
Location
Long Beach, CA
I can't really say anymore than than the fact that there is a lot of ongoing research going on behind the scenes among a lot of scientist some known, others unknown still being conducted even though things look as if they are not. It takes awhile for these matters to get resolved. There are twists and turns to every research study as in the case of Dr. Alter, for an example. I hope this clarifies any confusion.

I understand that, and I'm perfectly willing to wait for the studies to get published.

There are additional research studies being conducted by some of the authors of the original PLoS ONE study involving xmrv as well, that has not been published to date. They were not party to the study mentioned here: http://www.newswise.com/articles/chr...nervous-system and the finding or conclusion that no xmrv was found in the spinal fluid in reference to the title of this thread. .

So maybe my confusion is with the news story, because it specifically says "Schutzer and colleagues, in an article published online by Annals of Neurology...targeted spinal fluid based on the belief that if there is a neurological component to CFS as the symptoms suggest, then spinal fluid might contain a relevant pathogen such as a virus that is associated with the syndrome."

And it evens quotes Schutzer:Spinal fluid is a liquid window to the brain, said Schutzer. It is an important area of the body to examine when there is abnormal central nervous system function and an infectious or immunologic cause is suspected.

So it seems apparent that the article wasn't talking about the PLoS ONE proteins in the CSF study.

I'm not asking you to clarify what's going on with this news article, Eco, in any way that compromises confidentiality. You can leave us to speculate until it shows up in the Annals of Neurology. I'm just saying that the article says it's the same group of researchers, but a different study than the PLoS one.
 
Messages
13,774
Thanks Ecoclimber - I think I prompted a lot of this confusion by linking the two studies without checking the author list.

Sorry all!