New twiv on xmrv

[leaves]

Interesting, also their comments on lab mice and active placebo's and clinical trials


Www.twiv.tv

 

[jspotila]

Interesting, also their comments on lab mice and active placebo's and clinical trials


Www.twiv.tv

The discussion about acive placebos was something I had not thought of before. So controls in an antiretroviral study might need a placebo that gives them the same side effects as the active drug, so no one will know if they are getting drug or placebo? *shudder*

 

[leaves]

Yes I think unnecessary, there is ample evidence that cfs has a very low ( one of the lowest) placebo responses.

 

[Deatheye]

Did anyone get what they sad about the glycogag leader beeing 100% the same like something else... lol
That was fare to deep into the science part... but somehow they talked about the virus comming out of a lab?

I alsow didn't get till now that XMRV seems to be an combination of a XMLV and a PMLV. And what's an Ecotropic MLV?
Seemd like a lot of interesting stuff kinda xD

 

[leaves]

Yes indeed, the virus appears to stem from a particular mouse that is commonly used for lab experiments. It is possible that they are the origin of the virus.

 

[CBS]

Hi Deatheye,

Eco - capable of transmission/infection within a species
Xeno - capable of infection of difference species
Poly- capable of infecting self and other

 

[Esther12]

We're still waiting for Alan Dove to get back to us in his thread here, aren't we? I wonder if he ever will.

 

[Stone]

Yes indeed, the virus appears to stem from a particular mouse that is commonly used for lab experiments. It is possible that they are the origin of the virus.

It would certainly explain a lot. Does anyone know if, say, back in the 50's and/or 60's for instance, any vaccines were made by growing pathogens in mice as part of the process? Has this ever been done? I've read that Jonas Salk developed the polio vaccine by growing it in monkeys and then making experimental vaccine from their organs and inoculating tribal peoples with it. It's thought by some that this is how HIV was introduced into the human population. Currently, our flu vaccines are made by growing the virus in chicken eggs.

 

[leaves]

Hmm I don't know. I am xmrv+ and if I look at the medical history of my maternal family line I can trace the virus pretty far back, about 80 to 100 years.

 

[Mithriel]

Placebos are not necessary for anything that can be measured objectively. Antibiotics will kill off bacteria whatever you think you are getting.

If they measure viral loads or immune profiles after giving retrovirals the placebo effect is not a factor. It is only when patients are asked how they feel that it comes in.

The original work which found the placebo effect has been re-examined and it was found that the author had overstated his results.

When people are asked if a symptom has gone when they are in a drug trial they have a tendency to say it is working a bit because they do not want to disappoint the researchers. This has nothing to do with a mysterious psychological effect.

Placebos and blinded studies have become words that are used without people really understanding what they mean and why they are important.

Mithriel

 

[ukxmrv]

How far through this episode of TWIV do they talk about XMRV? I've listened and must have missed it. Any approx ideas would be very welcome!

 

[leaves]

the first 20 mins or so?

 

[Boule de feu]

Did anyone get what they sad about the glycogag leader beeing 100% the same like something else... lol
That was fare to deep into the science part... but somehow they talked about the virus comming out of a lab?

This is what Dr Racaniello said:

"This blows me away. The glyco-gag leader of XMRV is a 100% match with 1-2-9 laboratory mouse strain.
The Alter sequence matches C-57 black mice 99%. So, does this mean that the origin of the virus is laboratory infection?"

They also explain very well why both studies couldn't be contamination - looking at the same patients 15 years ago and now, they would not show the same virus in their blood (something like that).

They also commended Dr Harvey for his paper very well done.

 

[VillageLife]

i thought its interesting that they say evolution made the mice immune to XMRV, Its like survival of the fittest mouse....so maybe this virus really did make mice very ill - once upon a time!

XMRV no longer infecting mice......

BUT maybe humans aren't so lucky with XMRV........

 

[Boule de feu]

i thought its interesting that they say evolution made the mice immune to XMRV, Its like survival of the fittest mouse....so maybe this virus really did make mice very ill - once upon a time!

XMRV no longer infecting mice......

BUT maybe humans aren't so lucky with XMRV........

It is definitely something in our blood (or something lacking) that makes us sick with this virus. The mice found a way to stay healthy - it seems that some of us are not this lucky!

 

[guest]

I find it interesting that 3 months ago they claimed that contamination was highly likely in the science study while now we know it isn't. Can anyone explain what a glyco-gag leader is?

 

[sensing progress]

Placebos are not necessary for anything that can be measured objectively. Antibiotics will kill off bacteria whatever you think you are getting.

If they measure viral loads or immune profiles after giving retrovirals the placebo effect is not a factor. It is only when patients are asked how they feel that it comes in.

The original work which found the placebo effect has been re-examined and it was found that the author had overstated his results.

When people are asked if a symptom has gone when they are in a drug trial they have a tendency to say it is working a bit because they do not want to disappoint the researchers. This has nothing to do with a mysterious psychological effect.

Placebos and blinded studies have become words that are used without people really understanding what they mean and why they are important.

Mithriel

Thanks for explaing that, very interesting!

 

[zzzz]

This is what Dr Racaniello said:

"This blows me away. The glyco-gag leader of XMRV is a 100% match with 1-2-9 laboratory mouse strain.
The Alter sequence matches C-57 black mice 99%. So, does this mean that the origin of the virus is laboratory infection?"

I was wondering if I heard correctly!!! and if anyone else had picked up on this. Dove and the other guy sure had a strong reaction. Tell me he's not implying we could be sick because of a lab infection spreading to millions of people

 

[CBS]

I find it interesting that 3 months ago they claimed that contamination was highly likely in the science study while now we know it isn't. Can anyone explain what a glyco-gag leader is?

Diesel, I'm willing to take a shot. Anyone who wants to help clean up and errors of less than clear portions of the following, please feel free.

[FONT=&quot]Perhaps this will help. Take a good look at the slides I've linked to from an online retroviral tutorial produced by Stanford Univ.: http://www.stanford.edu/group/nolan/tutorials/ret_3_maj_prot.html[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“The group antigens (GAG) form the viral core structure, RNA genome binding proteins, and are the major proteins comprising the nucleoprotein core particle.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This is from the http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/08/16/1007944107.full.pdf ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mouse retroviruses and chronic fatigue syndrome: Does X (or P) mark the spot?[/FONT][FONT=&quot])[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Glycosylated forms of Gag, or glycogag, can be incorporated in virions (10) and are required for ef[/FONT][FONT=&quot]fi[/FONT][FONT=&quot]cient viral release (11), spread, and pathogenesis (12, 13)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Think of glycogen as fuel for the body’s metabolic processes – and essential in the spread of MLV - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From http://www.pnas.org/content/107/20/9364.abstract (MLV glycosylated-Gag is an infectivity factor that rescues Nef-deficient HIV-1)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Analysis of MLV deletion mutations identified glycosylated gag (glycogag) as the factor that rescues Nef-defective HIV-1 virions. Glycogag was also demonstrated to be required for the infectivity of MLV virions produced in lymphoid cells. Direct comparison of Nef and glycogag revealed identical dependence for activity on Env-pseudotype and producer cell type. The two proteins colocalize within cells, and both increase the yield of viral cDNA in target cells. The functional similarity of Nef and glycogag is a compelling example of convergent evolution in which two structurally unrelated proteins provide a function necessary for virion infectivity in lymphoid cells.”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The leader sequence is a portion of genetic material (RNA) that precedes the specific sequences that defining the gag region of the virus. What Racaniello was saying is that Alter found a form of MLV sequence that indicates a highly infective and efficient retrovirus.
[/FONT]

 

[Min]

this is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbKoTpYBY-c&feature=email