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From slayadragon
Hi All,
Ive been having some e-mail conversations with Mike Dessin about the role of toxic mold in his illness and recovery, as well as the role of energetic medicine similar to the sort that Mike has pursued in my own recovery.
I thought Id summarize those conversations here.
Mike, obviously if Ive misstated anything or if you have anything to add, Id greatly appreciate your comments!
In reading Mikes bio a few weeks ago, I noted that he had changed residences a number of times since getting really ill.
His bio also suggested that later declines happened concurrently with some of his subsequent moves.
Its my observation that in some cases, merely moving away from a residence contaminated with toxic mold and putting aside all of the contaminated belongings from that residence can move CFS sufferers in the direction of improved health.
Usually this isnt enough in itself to lead to true wellness for CFS patients. However, Im starting to think that combined with other treatments (especially those related to detoxification, viral problems or immune support), moderate mold avoidance may be enough to to effect real improvements or even a recovery.
As I suspected, Mike stated that toxic mold did indeed play a major role in his illness.
He stated that a severe black mold (stachybotrys) problem was found in his home in southern California at the same time that his CFS began.
Mike also stated that his health had been problematic prior to this incident, and that the mold thus seemed to him to be the last straw rather than the sole cause of the disease.
This is consistent with what I and others who have successfully addressed CFS through toxic mold avoidance have experienced. I personally tend to think that CFS sufferers have had numerous exposures to various chemicals/metals and to toxic mold throughout their lives, and that exposure to a particularly moldy home or workplace can push those who are wavering over the edge into true CFS.
Mike says that upon finding that his residence had a toxic mold problem, he immediately moved out and discarded almost all of his stuff. He then began the odyssey described in his bio, living in a variety of residences in different parts of the country.
Finally he ended up in a home in Ohio that he says is good with regard to both chemicals and toxic mold.
Let me add here that my own observations suggest that large chunks of California (where Mike got sick and spent some of his time after getting ill) are quite bad with regard to the presence of particularly nasty strains of toxic mold in the outside air. There are some parts of California (e.g. some remote desert areas) that are very good, but they seem to be exceptions. Insofar as toxic mold is (as hypothesized) a key underlying cause of CFS, the high rate and severity of CFS cases in that state are consistent with my and others observations regarding the mold levels there.
Conversely, its my observation that the Midwest tends to be more moderate in terms of outdoor toxic mold levels. This is consistent with the apparent lower number of CFS cases (and in many cases somewhat milder symptoms) in that area.
Mike stated that though he felt good when next to the ocean, he tended to feel worse in California than elsewhere. (My observation is that beaches tend to be great in terms of toxic mold, possibly due to the toxins being easily blown out to sea and/or the presence of negative ions.)
Mike stated that it took him a year in his current residence before he started to feel better, and that his improved wellness seemed due to the neural therapy he received.
This also is entirely consistent with my own experiences and observations with regard to toxic mold, other toxins and various detoxification treatments.
Rarely do people with CFS experience immediate improvements upon moving to an environment low in toxic mold. The toxins present in the body as well as the downstream effects continue to take a toll. It is not until effective detoxification (of whatever sort) is achieved that improved wellness occurs.
Im especially interested in MIkes experiences because of my own history with neural therapy treatments. I received neural therapy from Dr. Dale Guyer in Indianapolis for a number of years throughout my illness, prior to my learning that my house had a toxic mold problem. He administered them with a homeopathic solution added to the procaine. My belief is that hes quite skilled at the technique, and I would recommend him highly.
I found neural therapy to be one of the more helpful treatments that I received. In retrospect, I think it was the only treatment I found helpful that addressed what I believe to be one of the direct causes of my illness (e.g. toxins or viruses). Other treatments I pursued also were somewhat helpful, but its now my belief that the things that they addressed (e.g. candida, food allergies, sleep, hormone problems) were downstream from the core causal factors.
Neural therapy certainly was not enough to bring me anywhere near full wellness when I was living in my moldy home. However, it was helpful enough that I am quite inclined to believe Mikes assertion that it was responsible for his own recovery.
I described my experiences with neural therapy to Mike. He stated that my experiences were similar to his, bringing up the concept of flash points. (I dont know if hes discussed that here; if not, we should.)
About 18 months ago, I discovered the toxic mold problem in my home. I was very ill at this point, spending 18-22 hours comatose in bed and rarely leaving the house. (My illness was clearly classic CFS/ME: my results on more than 100 tests over a dozen years were as expected, I would have qualified for Dr. Montoyas Valcyte study, my case history had the killer flu, I had nearly every symptom attributed to the disease, and my responses to a very wide variety of treatments were consistently as expected.)
Like Mike, I immediately moved out of my moldy house and put aside all my stuff. I made a special effort to seek out non-moldy environments and made a modest amount of progress.
About a year ago, I spent some time in the godforsaken wilderness. This allowed me to become sensitive enough to toxic mold to start to be able to immediately identify even small amounts of toxic mold in the environment (including in the outside air, on objects and in buildings). I then proceeded to make a concerted effort to get away from these sources of mold as I encountered them.
Almost immediately, I moved to almost full recovery. Likely this would not have happened had I not been doing moderate avoidance prior to my stay in the wilderness, but it was remarkable how fast the improvement occurred.
Having to avoid mold so scrupulously is a pain, no doubt! I thus have been focusing on intensive detoxification treatments with the goal of needing to be less careful.
What Ive found is that my body does not easily shed toxins unless I am in a place that is very clear of toxic mold. Ive thus spent a lot of time in Death Valley and other areas that have low amounts of mold.
While in these good locations, Ive taken a whole lot of cholestyramine (a prescription drug that Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker believes removes mold toxin from the body). I also have continued Rich van Konynenbergs protocol.
The thing that I have found particularly interesting (and relevant to Mikes experiences) is that when Im in a really mold-free environment and taking cholestyramine, my body automatically goes into the exact same reactions that it did when I was getting neural therapy. (I hesitate to describe these reactions because they sound pretty hocus-pocus, but theyre so much in keeping with my neural therapy experience that I will do so anyway.)
What I am finding is that I spontaneously get what feels like energy buildups in my trigger points. The trigger points get tender and swollen. By focusing my attention just a little bit on a particular point and pulling the energy toward it, I get what feels like a sudden release. I experience full-body convulsions that feel centered on that particular trigger point. As this happens, the trigger point hurts a bit (sometimes a lot!). The pain dissipates as the convulsions cease. At that point, the apparent energy blockage moves to another point, and I automatically focus on it. I repeat the process until I get exhausted.
If I do this for a while during a session, I feel quite dizzy and toxic and worn out. Over time, Ive done this with hundreds of points on my body. Its been hard work, but it seems to be paying off.
Since I started this about six months ago, my ability to be around toxic mold has gone up substantially. I still am bothered a lot when I hit my limit in terms of mold exposures, but Im needing to worry about it less and less. Hopefully further detox will allow me to tolerate even more toxic mold and thus to lead a mostly or wholly normal life.
In terms of my health when Im not around too much toxic mold, Im about at the level that Mike seems to be reporting. My ability to do physical exercise is terrific. Every single one of my CFS symptoms has disappeared. My alcohol intolerance has wholly disappeared. My hormones (I used to supplement almost a dozen different ones) are perfectly fine. My sleep is great. My brain fog is gone. I used to take dozens of supplements just to keep afloat; now I only take large amounts of Vitamin C (which appears to be detoxifying and also helps the cholestyramine to move through my system) and some of the ones Rich suggests (B12, activated folate, phos serine). All the others seem to have become wholly unnecessary.
As is the case with Mike, my cognitive function has improved but not returned to where it was prior to getting sick. In particular, my input/output (e.g. reading and writing) and task-switching abilities are still lower than they were when I was getting my Ph.D. and doing academic research. My hope is that with further detox and time, my brain will slowly go back to where it used to be. I certainly can live a satisfactory life at the level Im at, but being able to get in all ways to my pre-illness level would be a real accomplishment!
Mike and I agree that our treatment approaches have been extremely similar. Weve both made strong efforts to avoid toxic mold as well as excessive chemical exposures. Weve both focused strongly on detox, and in particular energetic detox. Weve both been effectively addressing mold (him in his current house, me in various places) for about 18 months, and weve each been pursuing the energetic detox for about the same length of time. And weve ended up at almost exactly the same place in terms of our health.
The difference is that while Ive leaned more toward mold avoidance, hes leaned more toward systematic energetic treatment. This seems to be a minor detail rather than a core difference in approach though.
(At some point I will go back to Dr. Guyer and give neural therapy a try again, just to see how I respond to it in conjunction with mold avoidance. What Ive been doing is extremely powerful in itself, but I would imagine that the neural therapy would be even more effective.)
I agree with Mike that it may be possible to achieve wellness through neural therapy even if an individual is living in a somewhat moldy environment (inside or outside). Insofar as the neural therapy is particularly efficient at removing mold toxins (or the negative energetic effects of mold toxins) from the body, this makes theoretical sense.
My experience, and that of others, suggests that mere avoidance (insofar as its particularly stringent) also can be effective at allowing wellness to be achieved.
However, the amount of neural therapy required to overcome substantial current exposures of toxic mold seems like it might be quite high. And certainly, the amount of mold avoidance needed to get a CFS sufferer well is (in my own experience ad that of others) quite difficult and life-limiting.
Combining the two approaches, as Mike and I have both done, thus seems like it may be a better choice.
I bring all this up in the context of a) the recent decisions of a number of CFS sufferers to try neural therapy and b) the comments Ive gotten from a number of people that the fact that Mike has gotten well through neural therapy means that addressing toxic mold isnt necessarily something that CFS sufferers need to do in order to move toward recovery.
The idea that CFS has subgroups is one that is frequently floated in these conversations. This idea of subgroups seems to me to be a somewhat dangerous one, in that it has the potential of causing us to inappropriately dismiss approaches that have been key in CFS sufferers recoveries as irrelevant to our own cases.
Ive yet to see any evidence that seems even modestly convincing that such subgroups exist. Rather, my observation is that every single real CFS/ME (as opposed to mere fatigue!) patient has the exact same constellation of problems: herpes family viruses, Lyme, general toxicity, mold toxicity, and various other problems that seem to be more downstream. Insofar as this is the case, it seems reasonable to proceed under the tentative assumption that all CFS patients have the potential of benefiting from the same sorts of therapies.
(The role of toxic mold has been overlooked until recently, due in part to the fact that it can hide really well in buildings and needs to be present only in very small amounts to have huge effects on CFS sufferers. Tests developed by Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker now show that CFS sufferers almost invariably exhibit patterns of test results that signify serious mold illness as well as genes predisposing them toward this illness, however.)
More to the point on this board, insofar as individuals with CFS are pursuing neural therapy without first having addressed toxic mold, they are not following the path that Mike followed.
It disturbs me to think that these folks might be setting themselves up for disappointment when, with some extra effort, they might have been able to achieve Mikes results. It is even more problematic to think that the efficacy of neural therapy might be dismissed as a result of such failures, and that the potential role of toxic mold in this illness might continue to be overlooked.
I thus thought it appropriate to bring my discussions with Mike to the attention of this group.
Again, Mike, any comments you have would be great.
Best,
Lisa
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09-02-2009 07:43 PMMichael Dessin
Great Great stuff!! I just got done writing a somewhat long post below, I really want to comment on this. Will do in a day or two.
Particularly interesting--Can these treatments in them selves, heal while we have continued exposure????
Lets go beyond mold exposure!! Mold, mercury , pesticides.....all of it!
Can continuous exposures to any of these, be enough to block the effectiveness of energy therapy and other treatments?
I want to get some input from my doc tomorrow on this.
Thanks for posting Lisa
Edit Report IP
09-04-2009 08:27 AMslayadragon
Mike,
Do you have the feeling that the neural therapy is working on toxins such as mercury as well as mold toxins?
The reason that I ask is that when I've gotten chelation, my symptoms are significantly different that the ones I get with the energetics.
The chelation causes much more headaches, for example.
I've found the same thing with brown seaweed (aka Modifilan and Limu).
Dr. Mary Beth Short-Ray claims that this supplement helps with mold illness, but in discussions has presented no evidence that it's working on this rather than on "regular" toxins (that go through the methylation cycle).
Brown seaweed has been shown to remove metals, and this is consistent with my finding that it's similar to chelation in its effects.
I've focused primarily on cholestyramine/energetics thus far. Too much chelation or brown seaweed (especially if I combine it with saunas) is pretty painful.
But I'm wondering....do you think that maybe our failure thus far to obtain full cognitive recovery could be due to our not having adequately addressed mercury?
In which case, merely waiting for the brain to repair itself may not be enough.
A couple of doctors (Dr. Shoemaker and Dr. Guyer) also suggest that mold reactivity can go down as a result of chelation. This is consistent with the idea that total toxic load can affect our susceptibility to being harmed by all kinds of toxins.
I've been doing Rich van K's protocol for two years. But I get the feeling from his comments that it's less able to remove mercury from the brain than from other parts of the body.
I don't know how well chelation and brown seaweed address mercury (and other metals/toxins) in the brain, but it seems plausible.
I think I'm going to cautiously try the brown seaweed (and maybe the chelation when I can get it) and see what happens.
Do you (or others) have any thoughts?
Best, Lisa
Edit Report IP
09-04-2009 09:23 AM jenbooks
I would like to see toxic mold discussed on the main board, not on the group to follow Mike's doc's protocol. Here the posts generally are about his protocol or other docs learning/doing similar protocols. Unless Mike's doc agrees mold avoidance is part of his protocol, it seems this should go under the treatment section on the main board. Just my opinion, so this group stays focussed.
Edit Report IP
From slayadragon
Hi All,
Ive been having some e-mail conversations with Mike Dessin about the role of toxic mold in his illness and recovery, as well as the role of energetic medicine similar to the sort that Mike has pursued in my own recovery.
I thought Id summarize those conversations here.
Mike, obviously if Ive misstated anything or if you have anything to add, Id greatly appreciate your comments!
In reading Mikes bio a few weeks ago, I noted that he had changed residences a number of times since getting really ill.
His bio also suggested that later declines happened concurrently with some of his subsequent moves.
Its my observation that in some cases, merely moving away from a residence contaminated with toxic mold and putting aside all of the contaminated belongings from that residence can move CFS sufferers in the direction of improved health.
Usually this isnt enough in itself to lead to true wellness for CFS patients. However, Im starting to think that combined with other treatments (especially those related to detoxification, viral problems or immune support), moderate mold avoidance may be enough to to effect real improvements or even a recovery.
As I suspected, Mike stated that toxic mold did indeed play a major role in his illness.
He stated that a severe black mold (stachybotrys) problem was found in his home in southern California at the same time that his CFS began.
Mike also stated that his health had been problematic prior to this incident, and that the mold thus seemed to him to be the last straw rather than the sole cause of the disease.
This is consistent with what I and others who have successfully addressed CFS through toxic mold avoidance have experienced. I personally tend to think that CFS sufferers have had numerous exposures to various chemicals/metals and to toxic mold throughout their lives, and that exposure to a particularly moldy home or workplace can push those who are wavering over the edge into true CFS.
Mike says that upon finding that his residence had a toxic mold problem, he immediately moved out and discarded almost all of his stuff. He then began the odyssey described in his bio, living in a variety of residences in different parts of the country.
Finally he ended up in a home in Ohio that he says is good with regard to both chemicals and toxic mold.
Let me add here that my own observations suggest that large chunks of California (where Mike got sick and spent some of his time after getting ill) are quite bad with regard to the presence of particularly nasty strains of toxic mold in the outside air. There are some parts of California (e.g. some remote desert areas) that are very good, but they seem to be exceptions. Insofar as toxic mold is (as hypothesized) a key underlying cause of CFS, the high rate and severity of CFS cases in that state are consistent with my and others observations regarding the mold levels there.
Conversely, its my observation that the Midwest tends to be more moderate in terms of outdoor toxic mold levels. This is consistent with the apparent lower number of CFS cases (and in many cases somewhat milder symptoms) in that area.
Mike stated that though he felt good when next to the ocean, he tended to feel worse in California than elsewhere. (My observation is that beaches tend to be great in terms of toxic mold, possibly due to the toxins being easily blown out to sea and/or the presence of negative ions.)
Mike stated that it took him a year in his current residence before he started to feel better, and that his improved wellness seemed due to the neural therapy he received.
This also is entirely consistent with my own experiences and observations with regard to toxic mold, other toxins and various detoxification treatments.
Rarely do people with CFS experience immediate improvements upon moving to an environment low in toxic mold. The toxins present in the body as well as the downstream effects continue to take a toll. It is not until effective detoxification (of whatever sort) is achieved that improved wellness occurs.
Im especially interested in MIkes experiences because of my own history with neural therapy treatments. I received neural therapy from Dr. Dale Guyer in Indianapolis for a number of years throughout my illness, prior to my learning that my house had a toxic mold problem. He administered them with a homeopathic solution added to the procaine. My belief is that hes quite skilled at the technique, and I would recommend him highly.
I found neural therapy to be one of the more helpful treatments that I received. In retrospect, I think it was the only treatment I found helpful that addressed what I believe to be one of the direct causes of my illness (e.g. toxins or viruses). Other treatments I pursued also were somewhat helpful, but its now my belief that the things that they addressed (e.g. candida, food allergies, sleep, hormone problems) were downstream from the core causal factors.
Neural therapy certainly was not enough to bring me anywhere near full wellness when I was living in my moldy home. However, it was helpful enough that I am quite inclined to believe Mikes assertion that it was responsible for his own recovery.
I described my experiences with neural therapy to Mike. He stated that my experiences were similar to his, bringing up the concept of flash points. (I dont know if hes discussed that here; if not, we should.)
About 18 months ago, I discovered the toxic mold problem in my home. I was very ill at this point, spending 18-22 hours comatose in bed and rarely leaving the house. (My illness was clearly classic CFS/ME: my results on more than 100 tests over a dozen years were as expected, I would have qualified for Dr. Montoyas Valcyte study, my case history had the killer flu, I had nearly every symptom attributed to the disease, and my responses to a very wide variety of treatments were consistently as expected.)
Like Mike, I immediately moved out of my moldy house and put aside all my stuff. I made a special effort to seek out non-moldy environments and made a modest amount of progress.
About a year ago, I spent some time in the godforsaken wilderness. This allowed me to become sensitive enough to toxic mold to start to be able to immediately identify even small amounts of toxic mold in the environment (including in the outside air, on objects and in buildings). I then proceeded to make a concerted effort to get away from these sources of mold as I encountered them.
Almost immediately, I moved to almost full recovery. Likely this would not have happened had I not been doing moderate avoidance prior to my stay in the wilderness, but it was remarkable how fast the improvement occurred.
Having to avoid mold so scrupulously is a pain, no doubt! I thus have been focusing on intensive detoxification treatments with the goal of needing to be less careful.
What Ive found is that my body does not easily shed toxins unless I am in a place that is very clear of toxic mold. Ive thus spent a lot of time in Death Valley and other areas that have low amounts of mold.
While in these good locations, Ive taken a whole lot of cholestyramine (a prescription drug that Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker believes removes mold toxin from the body). I also have continued Rich van Konynenbergs protocol.
The thing that I have found particularly interesting (and relevant to Mikes experiences) is that when Im in a really mold-free environment and taking cholestyramine, my body automatically goes into the exact same reactions that it did when I was getting neural therapy. (I hesitate to describe these reactions because they sound pretty hocus-pocus, but theyre so much in keeping with my neural therapy experience that I will do so anyway.)
What I am finding is that I spontaneously get what feels like energy buildups in my trigger points. The trigger points get tender and swollen. By focusing my attention just a little bit on a particular point and pulling the energy toward it, I get what feels like a sudden release. I experience full-body convulsions that feel centered on that particular trigger point. As this happens, the trigger point hurts a bit (sometimes a lot!). The pain dissipates as the convulsions cease. At that point, the apparent energy blockage moves to another point, and I automatically focus on it. I repeat the process until I get exhausted.
If I do this for a while during a session, I feel quite dizzy and toxic and worn out. Over time, Ive done this with hundreds of points on my body. Its been hard work, but it seems to be paying off.
Since I started this about six months ago, my ability to be around toxic mold has gone up substantially. I still am bothered a lot when I hit my limit in terms of mold exposures, but Im needing to worry about it less and less. Hopefully further detox will allow me to tolerate even more toxic mold and thus to lead a mostly or wholly normal life.
In terms of my health when Im not around too much toxic mold, Im about at the level that Mike seems to be reporting. My ability to do physical exercise is terrific. Every single one of my CFS symptoms has disappeared. My alcohol intolerance has wholly disappeared. My hormones (I used to supplement almost a dozen different ones) are perfectly fine. My sleep is great. My brain fog is gone. I used to take dozens of supplements just to keep afloat; now I only take large amounts of Vitamin C (which appears to be detoxifying and also helps the cholestyramine to move through my system) and some of the ones Rich suggests (B12, activated folate, phos serine). All the others seem to have become wholly unnecessary.
As is the case with Mike, my cognitive function has improved but not returned to where it was prior to getting sick. In particular, my input/output (e.g. reading and writing) and task-switching abilities are still lower than they were when I was getting my Ph.D. and doing academic research. My hope is that with further detox and time, my brain will slowly go back to where it used to be. I certainly can live a satisfactory life at the level Im at, but being able to get in all ways to my pre-illness level would be a real accomplishment!
Mike and I agree that our treatment approaches have been extremely similar. Weve both made strong efforts to avoid toxic mold as well as excessive chemical exposures. Weve both focused strongly on detox, and in particular energetic detox. Weve both been effectively addressing mold (him in his current house, me in various places) for about 18 months, and weve each been pursuing the energetic detox for about the same length of time. And weve ended up at almost exactly the same place in terms of our health.
The difference is that while Ive leaned more toward mold avoidance, hes leaned more toward systematic energetic treatment. This seems to be a minor detail rather than a core difference in approach though.
(At some point I will go back to Dr. Guyer and give neural therapy a try again, just to see how I respond to it in conjunction with mold avoidance. What Ive been doing is extremely powerful in itself, but I would imagine that the neural therapy would be even more effective.)
I agree with Mike that it may be possible to achieve wellness through neural therapy even if an individual is living in a somewhat moldy environment (inside or outside). Insofar as the neural therapy is particularly efficient at removing mold toxins (or the negative energetic effects of mold toxins) from the body, this makes theoretical sense.
My experience, and that of others, suggests that mere avoidance (insofar as its particularly stringent) also can be effective at allowing wellness to be achieved.
However, the amount of neural therapy required to overcome substantial current exposures of toxic mold seems like it might be quite high. And certainly, the amount of mold avoidance needed to get a CFS sufferer well is (in my own experience ad that of others) quite difficult and life-limiting.
Combining the two approaches, as Mike and I have both done, thus seems like it may be a better choice.
I bring all this up in the context of a) the recent decisions of a number of CFS sufferers to try neural therapy and b) the comments Ive gotten from a number of people that the fact that Mike has gotten well through neural therapy means that addressing toxic mold isnt necessarily something that CFS sufferers need to do in order to move toward recovery.
The idea that CFS has subgroups is one that is frequently floated in these conversations. This idea of subgroups seems to me to be a somewhat dangerous one, in that it has the potential of causing us to inappropriately dismiss approaches that have been key in CFS sufferers recoveries as irrelevant to our own cases.
Ive yet to see any evidence that seems even modestly convincing that such subgroups exist. Rather, my observation is that every single real CFS/ME (as opposed to mere fatigue!) patient has the exact same constellation of problems: herpes family viruses, Lyme, general toxicity, mold toxicity, and various other problems that seem to be more downstream. Insofar as this is the case, it seems reasonable to proceed under the tentative assumption that all CFS patients have the potential of benefiting from the same sorts of therapies.
(The role of toxic mold has been overlooked until recently, due in part to the fact that it can hide really well in buildings and needs to be present only in very small amounts to have huge effects on CFS sufferers. Tests developed by Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker now show that CFS sufferers almost invariably exhibit patterns of test results that signify serious mold illness as well as genes predisposing them toward this illness, however.)
More to the point on this board, insofar as individuals with CFS are pursuing neural therapy without first having addressed toxic mold, they are not following the path that Mike followed.
It disturbs me to think that these folks might be setting themselves up for disappointment when, with some extra effort, they might have been able to achieve Mikes results. It is even more problematic to think that the efficacy of neural therapy might be dismissed as a result of such failures, and that the potential role of toxic mold in this illness might continue to be overlooked.
I thus thought it appropriate to bring my discussions with Mike to the attention of this group.
Again, Mike, any comments you have would be great.
Best,
Lisa
Edit Report IP
09-02-2009 07:43 PMMichael Dessin
Great Great stuff!! I just got done writing a somewhat long post below, I really want to comment on this. Will do in a day or two.
Particularly interesting--Can these treatments in them selves, heal while we have continued exposure????
Lets go beyond mold exposure!! Mold, mercury , pesticides.....all of it!
Can continuous exposures to any of these, be enough to block the effectiveness of energy therapy and other treatments?
I want to get some input from my doc tomorrow on this.
Thanks for posting Lisa
Edit Report IP
09-04-2009 08:27 AMslayadragon
Mike,
Do you have the feeling that the neural therapy is working on toxins such as mercury as well as mold toxins?
The reason that I ask is that when I've gotten chelation, my symptoms are significantly different that the ones I get with the energetics.
The chelation causes much more headaches, for example.
I've found the same thing with brown seaweed (aka Modifilan and Limu).
Dr. Mary Beth Short-Ray claims that this supplement helps with mold illness, but in discussions has presented no evidence that it's working on this rather than on "regular" toxins (that go through the methylation cycle).
Brown seaweed has been shown to remove metals, and this is consistent with my finding that it's similar to chelation in its effects.
I've focused primarily on cholestyramine/energetics thus far. Too much chelation or brown seaweed (especially if I combine it with saunas) is pretty painful.
But I'm wondering....do you think that maybe our failure thus far to obtain full cognitive recovery could be due to our not having adequately addressed mercury?
In which case, merely waiting for the brain to repair itself may not be enough.
A couple of doctors (Dr. Shoemaker and Dr. Guyer) also suggest that mold reactivity can go down as a result of chelation. This is consistent with the idea that total toxic load can affect our susceptibility to being harmed by all kinds of toxins.
I've been doing Rich van K's protocol for two years. But I get the feeling from his comments that it's less able to remove mercury from the brain than from other parts of the body.
I don't know how well chelation and brown seaweed address mercury (and other metals/toxins) in the brain, but it seems plausible.
I think I'm going to cautiously try the brown seaweed (and maybe the chelation when I can get it) and see what happens.
Do you (or others) have any thoughts?
Best, Lisa
Edit Report IP
09-04-2009 09:23 AM jenbooks
I would like to see toxic mold discussed on the main board, not on the group to follow Mike's doc's protocol. Here the posts generally are about his protocol or other docs learning/doing similar protocols. Unless Mike's doc agrees mold avoidance is part of his protocol, it seems this should go under the treatment section on the main board. Just my opinion, so this group stays focussed.
Edit Report IP
