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Nervous about B6 toxicity and too much Potassium

Messages
85
Location
Farmington, NY
I had an appt with my naturopath dr today and we discussed the methylation protocol a little. She was concerned about toxicity from too much B6 and thought that 300 mg of Potassium seemed like a lot. Now I'm nervous because I really don't know what I'm doing other than following Freddd's protocol, which makes sense when I read it, but I'm concerned I won't recognize the difference between a potassium deficiency, too much potassium, or a "normal" herxheimer reaction to the nerves regenerating.

Hopefully I would notice a severe Potassium deficiency even with my pacemaker!

BTW, I just started the protocol today:

B12 Infusion 1 mg
Source Naturals Dibencozide 1/4 pill (2.15 mg)
Pure Encapsulations B-complex Plus 1 cap
Metafolin (solgar) one 800 mg tablet
Vit A & D from fish oil one soft gel
Pure Encapsulations Pure Nutrients 950 plus vit k (four caps)
Potassium Gluconate two 99 mg tabs

Calcium from Equalactin (6 tablets)
Fish oil Nordic Naturals with CoQ10 one capsule
D3 2,000 iu

thanks,
Jessica
 

Sallysblooms

P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!
Messages
1,768
Location
Southern USA
I am sensitive to B6.Some people are. My doctor and I watch how much I get. Same with potassium. I get the potassium tested.
 
Messages
85
Location
Farmington, NY
Thanks, Sally. I plan to get my potassium tested again this week to see what's going on after a few days. I need to get more blood work done on my borderline thyroid panel anyway.

How can you tell if your sensitive to B6? What are the signs and symptoms? Thanks!
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I had an appt with my naturopath dr today and we discussed the methylation protocol a little. She was concerned about toxicity from too much B6 and thought that 300 mg of Potassium seemed like a lot. Now I'm nervous because I really don't know what I'm doing other than following Freddd's protocol, which makes sense when I read it, but I'm concerned I won't recognize the difference between a potassium deficiency, too much potassium, or a "normal" herxheimer reaction to the nerves regenerating.

Hopefully I would notice a severe Potassium deficiency even with my pacemaker!

BTW, I just started the protocol today:

B12 Infusion 1 mg
Source Naturals Dibencozide 1/4 pill (2.15 mg)
Pure Encapsulations B-complex Plus 1 cap
Metafolin (solgar) one 800 mg tablet
Vit A & D from fish oil one soft gel
Pure Encapsulations Pure Nutrients 950 plus vit k (four caps)
Potassium Gluconate two 99 mg tabs

thanks,
Jessica
Calcium from Equalactin (6 tablets)
Fish oil Nordic Naturals with CoQ10 one capsule
D3 2,000 iu



HI Jessrose,

a "normal" herxheimer reaction to the nerves regenerating.


Nerves regenerating has absolutely nothing to do with a herxheimer reaction. A herxheimer reaction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction

The Herxheimer reaction resembles bacterial sepsis and can occur after initiation antibacterials such as penicillin or tetracycline, or treatment of tick-borne relapsing fever. An association has been found between the release of heat-stable proteins from spirochetes and the reaction. The same can be true for candida die-off when toxins from the dying candida leak into the body. Typically, the death of these bacteria and the associated release of endotoxins occurs faster than the body can remove the toxins. It manifests as fever, chills, rigor, hypotension, headache, tachycardia, hyperventilation, vasodilation with flushing, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions. The intensity of the reaction indicates the severity of inflammation. Reaction commonly occurs within two hours of drug administration, but is usually self-limiting.

The Herxheimer reaction is classically associated with penicillin treatment of syphilis. Duration in syphilis is normally only a few hours. The reaction is also seen in other diseases caused by spirochetes, such as borreliosis (Lyme disease and tick-borne relapsing fever) and leptospirosis, and in Q fever.[1] Similar reactions have also been reported to occur in bartonellosis (including cat scratch disease),[2][3] brucellosis,[4] typhoid fever,[5] and trichinosis.[6]


but I'm concerned I won't recognize the difference between a potassium deficiency, too much potassium,

For one thing, the first question is do you have kidney damage that slows excretion of potassium?

So let's say that 3 days after you start the active b12 protocol you have certain symptoms appear. The active b12 protocol can't cause high potassium. It commonly causes decreased potassium to the extent of symtpoms in several days in most people. So the odds are what, a million to 1? that it's a lowering rather than a raising of potassium level? Then you take a single 500mg dose of potassium and the symptoms subside; confirmed. A single 500mg dose of potassium can't give you hyperkalemia. Your body needs an intake of about 5000mg a day and that mostly comes from food. So what happens if you eat a bannana? You do understand that serum lower potassium from starting the active b12 protocol is an almost forgone conclusion and higher has never been reported or suggested by anybody participating in any forum I have been in. I have met several people along the way who knew they have a high potassium problem and that became a consult with doctor situation. By all means have it measured. If it is below about 4.7 or 4.8 it will likely become low enough to cause symptoms.

Also, a quarter of a 10mg adb12 tablet is 2.5mg of adb12. It doesn't matter that it is the same number of molecules as in 2.15mg of cyanocbl. We are not comparing it to cyanocbl, just other adb12, and that just adds an unnecessary layer of translation and potential misunderstanding.
 
Messages
85
Location
Farmington, NY
Ok, thanks Freddd, for clearing all that up. I don't have kidney damage, thankfully. I had my CBC and potassium (etc) tested Friday, before starting up, so I'll call the dr tomorrow and see what it was. Last April, my Potassium was 3.8 meq/L.

I think the 2.15 mg of adb12 was a typo! Like I said, I really don't know what I'm doing yet to get anymore complicated than just following the protocol! I wish I had a doctor that had a clue about methylation and supplements. My family physician is open to it, but she never said a word about possible hypokalemia associated with high doses of B12. Nor did my naturopath. They just said, oh what ever the body doesn't use is just excreted in urine.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Ok, thanks Freddd, for clearing all that up. I don't have kidney damage, thankfully. I had my CBC and potassium (etc) tested Friday, before starting up, so I'll call the dr tomorrow and see what it was. Last April, my Potassium was 3.8 meq/L.

I think the 2.15 mg of adb12 was a typo! Like I said, I really don't know what I'm doing yet to get anymore complicated than just following the protocol! I wish I had a doctor that had a clue about methylation and supplements. My family physician is open to it, but she never said a word about possible hypokalemia associated with high doses of B12. Nor did my naturopath. They just said, oh what ever the body doesn't use is just excreted in urine.

HI Jessrose,

They just said, oh what ever the body doesn't use is just excreted in urine.

Exactly. That is why it is so rare and unusual to have high potassium and it's connection to kidney damage. A 3.8 is a level at which I and many others would be having all sorts of trouble. I get into trouble at 4.2 and below. At 3.8 you would be best off starting the potassium before you have symptoms as a precaution. The practioners are not experienced with 5 star methylb12 typically. Hypokalemia with cyanocbl and hydroxycbl is rare. With 5 star mb12 and Metafolin, in people with methylation block where there is a backlog of cell formation built up, it is common.
 
Messages
85
Location
Farmington, NY
A 3.8 is a level at which I and many others would be having all sorts of trouble. I get into trouble at 4.2 and below. At 3.8 you would be best off starting the potassium before you have symptoms as a precaution.


That's interesting because as I was reading the list of hypokalemia symptoms I was thinking, gee that's what I feel like all the time, minus the anxiety and irritability!
 

Sallysblooms

P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!
Messages
1,768
Location
Southern USA
I talked to my doc and pharmacist about potassium. My urologist has me on KDur for Kidney stones. He is clueless but the integrative doc and pharmacist told me to test and watch it.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I talked to my doc and pharmacist about potassium. My urologist has me on KDur for Kidney stones. He is clueless but the integrative doc and pharmacist told me to test and watch it.

On with the show...

Is there a home test of some kind so you can closely monitor it?

I looked it up and there are several test of both urine and blood (more accurate) for those who need to monitor regularly. Good luck.