Near instant nasty reaction to certain foods. What could it be?

Replenished

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I'd been doing a bit better health / engery wise for the past few weeks. Which I put down to taking pancreatic/digestive enzymes and bile salts which seems to have allowed me to take more nutrition from my food. I'd been feeling extremely depleted for years but never put it down to digestion because I don't have any obvious digestive issues, other than floating stools.

Anyway, every now and then and it happens last night, I have something to eat and within minutes I start feeling nauseous, dizzy, thirsty, I cannot think straight and my eyes even seem dodgy. My anxiety goes through the roof but it feels like an anxiety from the food reaction rather than my fear of it. I then cannot sleep all night. These symptoms usually last around 24 hours before they slowly begin to fade. Again there's no obvious digestive issue, other than maybe some bloating. But it's definitely a reaction caused by the food.

It's not dairy, it's not gluten (I don't eat gluten anyway due to intolerance). I'm struggling to work out what it is. I suspected it may have been potatoes as these were in the meal last night but I have them many other times with no problem. I'm thinking it may be some sort of chemical in a sauce or a preservative? Last night I felt like the reaction came after I ate a vegan chocolate dessert. Previously, when I last reacted this way, I'd had a roast with veg, potatoes, meat, all of which I'm usually ok with so I'm wondering if it may have been the gravy/sauce causing the issue.

These reactions seem quite extreme and I'm often on the verge of taking myself to hospital. They really stop me for days and hinder any progress. Does anyone have any idea what it might be? I was in a restaurant last night, I've emailed them asking for a list of ingredients that was in the dessert.
 

Tammy

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I'm thinking it may be some sort of chemical in a sauce or a preservative?
That would be my guess. Or hidden MSG?

Sauces, gravies have all sorts of crap in them.

Curious as to what ingredients are in the chocolate dessert.

I don't have any obvious digestive issues, other than floating stools.
Floating stools are better than sinking stools. Sinking stools are a sign that you are not digesting fats/proteins. (from what I've learned).
 

Replenished

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This is what I had eaten last night before the reaction started. Anything in particular that stands out there that would be a likely allergen?

I know it's hard to say exactly what caused the symptoms out of these meals but to me, it certainly felt as though I was ok up until eating the dessert at then things when downhill quite quickly.

Moules frites
Mussels (MOLLUSC), Garlic, Shallots, White Wine (SULPHITES), Double Cream (MILK), S&P, Parsley, Frites.
Dietary Information
Suitable for: Gluten Free
Contains: Milk, Molluscs, Sulphur Dioxide/Sulphites

Fish Parmentier
Haddock (FISH), Smoked Haddock (FISH), Salmon (FISH),Leeks, White Wine (SULPHITES), Leek Sauce (Leeks, S&P, MILK, Cornflour, Bay Leaves, Crème Liquide (MILK), Onions And Garlic), Garlic, Rapeseed Oil, Potato Puree (SULPHITES), Butter (MILK), MILK, King Prawns (CRUSTACEANS), Comte Cheese (MILK), Unsalted Butter (MILK), Lemon Juice, Salt, Dill, Black Pepper, White Pepper, Nutmeg, Bay Leaf, Parsley
Dietary Information
Suitable for: Gluten Free
Contains: Crustaceans, Fish, Milk, Sulphur Dioxide/Sulphites

Chocolate Delice (Coconut Milk (SULPHITES), Chocolate), Blood Orange Jelly (Blood Orange Juice, Caster Sugar, Water, Agar Agar), Blood Orange, Mint, Vegan Vanilla Ice Cream (SOYA)
Dietary Information
Suitable for: Vegan, Vegetarian, Gluten Free
Contains: Soya, Sulphur Dioxide/Sulphites
May contain: Milk
 
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I'd been doing a bit better health / engery wise for the past few weeks. Which I put down to taking pancreatic/digestive enzymes
Digestive enzymes can irritate the gut.
Anything in particular that stands out there that would be a likely allergen?
I think the starting point is to see if any of those things are new to you. Other than that I'd wonder if the seafood (mussels ect) might be the problem.
 
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I'd wonder if the seafood (mussels ect) might be the problem.
I would be blaming the sea food and two are filter feeders.

My daughter was anaphylactic on at least two separate occasions after some sea food meals.

Once we were able to pin it down to mislabeled fish, a huge issue with fish.
 

Replenished

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I've never noticed a problem with fish previously. Salmon, cod, prawns, etc all fine. The muscles, i'd not had before though, so could be. But they were a starter and I felt fine. I know it can take a while for these things to set in but something tells me it was the pudding.

It contains Soya and I just had look at the gravy/sauce I have on the previous meal I had the same reaction with, and it also contained Soya. Then again they both also contain sulphites.

Is there any allergy testing for these sorts of things that can give accurate results?
 

halcyon

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Seafood products in particular (especially when not flash frozen right after capture) are prone to relatively quick degradation to potentially pathogenic biogenic amines. You might want to look at mast cell activation syndrome food avoidance lists and see if you start seeing overlap in reactions to these foods. You might get a similar reaction to other foods that contain animal proteins that were aged/cured/fermented or slow cooked. You may also want to watch your blood pressure during these reactions. Some of these compounds can stimulate your sympathetic nervous system to the point of hypertensive crisis.
 

vision blue

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@halcyon i was going to bring up amines also. Im super reactive to them
And theyve indeed out me in hypertensive crises. Interesting that you mention MCAS right after the amine comment. Were you just going theu possibilities or do you find that they are linked? (Eg the amine in histamine which can be released by mast cells) I have both but since not everyone with mcas has the amine problem i ive never really known what to make of their connection.

@Replenished if you think is the desert, how about vanilla and mint? Both can act like excitatory neurotransmitters. . I almost called 911 because of anise which is another one of these aromatics that can mimic excitatory chemicals.
(Only reason I did not call 911 was because of very foggy thinking I had my finger on the nine on my phone and I kept thinking that I wanted to first get a clean shirt from the bedroom and then as soon as I could get into the bedroom I would get a clean shirt and then call 911 I probably sat on the couch for at least two hours and then I finally was able to stand up got the shirt and at that point I thought well if I’m well enough to get off the couch maybe I won’t die if I don’t call 911 so I just waited and didn’t. Not my finest monent)

I guess you’ve already checked for overlapping ingredients with the meal that did it before? Any similarities besides soy? It’s tricky because even if you react to something it doesn’t mean you’ll react every single time it could be one of these threshold phenomena.

Make others it’s hard to ignore the muscles. Perhaps that raised your histamine levels high enough to be extra sensitive to other ingredients. I guess no facial flushing?

By The way my reaction to anice was pretty similar to the reaction that you describe. I mentioned above, I also get SNS reactions to amibes like tyrqmibe.

What about taking vital signs during the next attack? Might be worth knowing if your blood pressure goes up or your blood pressure goes down.

Also if by dizzy you mean vertigo rather than lightheadedness, then als have salicylate sensitivity on your radar since that can cause vertigo
 

halcyon

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Interesting that you mention MCAS right after the amine comment. Were you just going theu possibilities or do you find that they are linked? (Eg the amine in histamine which can be released by mast cells) I have both but since not everyone with mcas has the amine problem i ive never really known what to make of their connection.
I believe they might be linked, however I've also not been able to figure out exactly what the connection is.

The evidence is limited, but mast cells do appear to express the trace amine receptor TAAR1, so it's possible that mast cells are responsive to other amines besides histamine, and so possibly exposure to other amines could cause them to degranulate just as histamine seems to in MCAS.
 

vision blue

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I believe they might be linked, however I've also not been able to figure out exactly what the connection is.

The evidence is limited, but mast cells do appear to express the trace amine receptor TAAR1, so it's possible that mast cells are responsive to other amines besides histamine, and so possibly exposure to other amines could cause them to degranulate just as histamine seems to in MCAS.
Thats interesting that mst cells are connected to trace amine receptors tho madt cellshabe such a long list ilof of substances they can release or stimulate that i often wonder if theres anything they CANT alter.

My knowledge of the mechanism may be wrong but isnt it that the mast cells release histamine when triggered rather than histamine being the trigger? I know people can also have histaminr sevsitivity but that too is not a requirement of MCAS Guess goes back to us not really kniwing the connection

I dont kniw many others that are sensitive to biogrnic amines so if you are we shoukd probably compare notes at some point

And to bring it back to the OP, did replenished say whether she her rea mction us in the context of having MCAS?

One thing i forgot to mentioni in my post (not on mcas or smines) is she said she has gluten sensitivity. If so, then many such people are anso sensitive to the proteins in milk whi h was in some of her dinner. When i first developed my milk intoerance (tho i dont have a gluten one), it would seem to strike random meals with dairy and then morphed to every single time.
 

halcyon

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My knowledge of the mechanism may be wrong but isnt it that the mast cells release histamine when triggered rather than histamine being the trigger? I know people can also have histaminr sevsitivity but that too is not a requirement of MCAS Guess goes back to us not really kniwing the connection
I don't actually understand the mechanism(s) involved in MCAS either, however I know that it is not IgE-mediated, which means that whatever is triggering the mast cells to degranulate, it likely has to be another receptor that mast cells express. My understanding, based both on the use of H1+H2 antihistamines as prophylactic treatment, as well as the need to avoid high histamine foodstuffs, was that the histamine receptor was the one that was probably causing mast cells to degranulate in MCAS. But maybe my understanding is way off.
 

Replenished

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This incident seemed to really knock me down and impact me long term. After a good few weeks, after this incident I've fallen back into being generally quite unwell on most days. As if it damaged my digestion for many days and week on from the incident.