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Natural Killer Cells

ttt

Senior Member
Messages
101
Location
Santa Monica, CA
I had my natural killer cell count and function measured. Can anyone help me interpret these results?

WBC Lymphs
Lymphocites, Absolute - 1,746 (850-3900)

Phenotyping
Natural Killer Cells
CD3-CD16+CD56+ (ABS) - 206 (70-760)
CD3-CD16+CD56+ (%) - 12 (4-25)

Natural Killer Cells, Functional - 15 (7-125)

Does this mean my NK cell count is OK, but the function is lowish? And if so, what does that mean?
 

heapsreal

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Messages
10,079
Location
australia (brisbane)
Its looks like everything is ok, but be interesting to get them done in a crash to, so you could compare and also get more done in 6 to 12 months and see any changes.

The nk changes arent seen in all cfs/me people, the test that they are finding more reproducable is the nk bright cell function, but this is just a research test at the moment but being looked at as a biomarker for us. CD8 Tcell function is another common abnormality but also may be hard to get.

Your nk function is lowish but definately worth keeping an eye on.

What other tests have u had? viral titres, neutrophils, immunoglobulins??
 

ttt

Senior Member
Messages
101
Location
Santa Monica, CA
Thanx, heapsreal. What does it mean when the NK count is normal but the function is low(ish)? Since I'm on the low side of the range, and ranges are usually way too wide, I'm assuming I should be considered lowish on the count.

I've also had viral tests (are antibodies the same as titres? I've had antibody tests for a number of viruses), as well as immunoglobulins. I'm positive for Coxsackie B Type 3, EBV, Parvovirus, and HHV 1, 2 and 6. My IgGs are all on the low side of the normal range. And neutrophils are normal.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@ttt I'm afraid I can't answer your questions but noticed you live in SM and was wondering if you found a doc in So. CA who ran all these tests (or if you traveled to a specialist?) If not comfortable posting, you can PM me the answer or if not comfortable disclosing at all, no worries! Best of luck moving forward!
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Thanx, heapsreal. What does it mean when the NK count is normal but the function is low(ish)? Since I'm on the low side of the range, and ranges are usually way too wide, I'm assuming I should be considered lowish on the count.

I've also had viral tests (are antibodies the same as titres? I've had antibody tests for a number of viruses), as well as immunoglobulins. I'm positive for Coxsackie B Type 3, EBV, Parvovirus, and HHV 1, 2 and 6. My IgGs are all on the low side of the normal range. And neutrophils are normal.
Your NK cell number and function look normal, so probably nothing to worry about there. What does your doctor say about it?

That doesn't mean you don't have some type of immune problem. As heapsreal suggested, it could be that a specific type of NK cell is not functioning properly, but that doesn't show up on the tests you had. Low CD8+ cells can give difficulty in fighting infections, so that's also a possibility.

You can be "positive" for all those infections without having a chronic infection. Low side of normal on IgG does not suggest a chronic infection, but without more information that you've given, it's hard to even make a guess. What exactly do you mean by "positive"? Almost everyone has positive IgG to many of those infections. Diagnosing a chronic infection takes a lot more than a positive IgG. It takes a knowledgeable doctor to put together all the pieces and make a sound diagnosis.

Are you seeing an ME/CFS specialist? Does s/he think the infections are chronic, or just indicating that you have had the infections in the past?
 

heapsreal

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Messages
10,079
Location
australia (brisbane)
cfs/me can also be relapsing and intermittent in a similar way to MS, so it could be that you need to catch these results during a particular crash/relapse. Having lowish but normal results may be a sign of a tiring immune system. Over time some peoples immune systems deteriorate over time as they are in a constant struggle with infections etc.

Like i have mentioned, definately keep an eye on these things. Pacing and symptomatic treatments with antioxidants, b12 etc could be a good place to start and if tests worsen then consider infectious treatments with your doctor.

Sometimes the only way to know if an infection is an issue is to treat it, again something to talk over with your doctor. Testing just isnt 100% accurate, so dont get discourage. Also look into orthostatic issues and mitochondrial issues also??

good luck.
 

ttt

Senior Member
Messages
101
Location
Santa Monica, CA
Thanx, SOC. None of my docs have seen the NK numbers, and frankly, I don't want to waste the money, because I doubt they know what any of it means. I've seen two ME/CFS specialists. One of them was a senile idiot who refused to look at my lab work -- he said, "I don't do that." The other was Dr. Chia, who is like a hammer looking for a nail -- he has already decided that ME/CFS is exclusively caused by an enterovirus, and he's not interested in looking at other pieces of the puzzle. So I only had one appointment with him, because that kind of narrow thinking isn't helpful to me.

Gingergrrl, I guess that sort of answers your question. Dr. Chia is in Torrance, so he's So Cal. But he's far too narrow in his view, IMO, to be able to treat me adequately. I did try his Equilibriant supplement for a couple months, and it didn't do anything for me. The other options he gave me were IVIG and Interferon, neither of which I was keen on. So I didn't continue seeing him. He ran some of the tests (all the enterovirus ones, plus the IgGs), but honestly, my testing has come from an assortment of doctors. Basically, I've looked into what I need to get tested, and then gone to whatever doctor du jour I've been seeing and asked them for the lab order. Then after running a few tests, they get sick of it and refuse to do any more testing, and I'm on to the next doctor. It's extremely frustrating, cause I feel like a criminal, just trying to get my health adequately assessed.

I have one doctor (who doesn't really wanna do testing on me) who I'm seeing via Skype. She charged an arm and a leg for the first appointment, but she was the first person who actually looked at all my tests/history and thought about it for more than 30 seconds. But again, without being able to do more testing, I feel like my hands are tied. At this point, I'm pursuing treatments that don't really require a doctor, because I feel like every doctor is a blind man just looking at one part of the elephant, and they seem to want me to limit my focus to whatever their limitations are, too.
 

heapsreal

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Messages
10,079
Location
australia (brisbane)
Thanx, heapsreal. What does it mean to look into orthostatic issues? I have very low BP and mild POTS, but what more is there to do other than to acknowledge that?

There are different things one can do for pots/oi, electrolyte drinks, certain stimulants can help with low bp, also certain sodium retaining meds can help as well as beta blockers for tachycardia, but using meds is a specialist type of field, not something to do on your own.

Could try electrolytes and increasing salt intake or use salt tablets. Some people have been helped with saline infusions but they arent a permanent solution but if u felt better after this then it could help you diagnose the low bp as an issue.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@ttt Thanks for your detailed info and I had the same feeling re: Dr. Chia and did not choose to go see him even though he is here in L.A. I think he is a brilliant doctor but the enterovirus cause is too limited for me and I wanted someone who would test me for everything and have more options.

My care was also very fragmented until I went up to OMI for treatment. I don't know if traveling up to No CA is an option for you. When I first joined PR and OMI was recommended to me, I thought it was too far away and I would find someone local. I soon realized this was not the case and traveling up there was the best decision I have ever made.
 

ttt

Senior Member
Messages
101
Location
Santa Monica, CA
Thank you, heapsreal. I already take electrolytes/minerals and 1-1/2 Tbsp./day of Himalayan crystal salt. Stimulants would be suicide for me, because I already have sooo much agitation and really terrible insomnia that requires 14 medications every night for sleep. And beta blockers further lower BP. It's crazy to be trying so hard to raise BP when most of the country is drugging themselves to lower it.

Gingergrrl, traveling isn't an option for me right now, but I'd love to hear more about OMI and what's so great about them and what they've done for you, because that might be an option for me in the future.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@ttt I will send you a PM so I don't take this thread off-track from the topic of NK cell functioning. I am going to bed shortly but will do it tomorrow (and please remind me if I accidentally forget!)
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,873
I had my natural killer cell count and function measured. Can anyone help me interpret these results?

WBC Lymphs
Lymphocites, Absolute - 1,746 (850-3900)

Phenotyping
Natural Killer Cells
CD3-CD16+CD56+ (ABS) - 206 (70-760)
CD3-CD16+CD56+ (%) - 12 (4-25)

Natural Killer Cells, Functional - 15 (7-125)

Does this mean my NK cell count is OK, but the function is lowish? And if so, what does that mean?


A normal person should have an NK cell function (LU30) of between 60 and 80.

We don't know yet exactly why this is low in CFS. One theory I favor is outlined in the paper by DeMeirleir/Lombardi. This regards a subset of the dendritic cells malfunctioning and autoimmunity.

There is no accepted treatment for this yet, but you may be able to recover some NK cell function by treating activated infections, and perhaps trying some supplements like Reishi mushroom extracts, GcMAF, etc.

There are other more serious treatments, such as Ampligen.

Low NK cell function may put us at higher risk for cancers, so having a healthy lifestyle (diet, sleep, etc) is important.

If you want my opinion on doctors, I would find a way to see Prof. DeMeirleir.
 

heapsreal

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Messages
10,079
Location
australia (brisbane)
We don't know yet exactly why this is low in CFS. One theory I favor is outlined in the paper by DeMeirleir/Lombardi. This regards a subset of the dendritic cells malfunctioning and autoimmunity.
Daff do you have a link to the above info?

thanks.