my doctor kicked me out of her office

[purplelady]

My doctor recommended an invasive test.
I chose not to do it.
She said that she could no longer
be my doctor.
Is this ethical?

 

[bensmith]

Jeez. : (

def not!

 

[Judee]

I think doctors need to learn to work with their patients a little more in this area.

For instance, I have told doctors that I and/or a family member are very sensitive to medications and medication changes but if someone is already on the lowest manufactured dose of something, the medical profession cannot seem to understand that someone's genetic makeup just might need something even lower.

I once asked a doctor how then it is possible for a tiny drop of bee venom to cause such a violent anaphylactic reaction in someone that they die? He nodded and kinda conceded to my point but I don't think it moved him much into changing how he deals with things.

Anyway, she's not a good doctor. Put her into the "won't work with patients' needs" file and move on to the next.

Yeah, I know it stinks because with this disease the time and effort it takes to find a possible new doctor and go for the first visit, etc is overwhelmingly difficult but hopefully the next one won't be like this one. Plus, with video visits maybe you can do the looking and visits online.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

She said that she could no longer
be my doctor.
Is this ethical?

No. And you should report her to the hospital where she has privileges.

Even better, write her a letter stating that you came to her in good faith seeking help and outlining briefly why you didn't want the invasive procedure she was demanding, and that you're baffled by her immediate, instantaneous decision to refuse you further treatment.

Do open cc's to the AMA in your state, the hospital where she has privileges, the State Medical board, and your Congressperson.

If anyone else reading this thread has further suggestions for other oversight organizations where a letter like this should be sent, PLEASE, please include them here.

There's no guarantee that they'll do anything, but it IS totally unethical for a Dr to 'fire' you because you, as the steward of your body, opt out of an invasive procedure with no probative value and potentially dangerous risks since ll Drs know that any nvasive procedure can cause damage and/or death.

Her arrogant and contemptuous behaviour towards you is unforgivable on a human level, and inexcusable on a professional one.

 

[geraldt52]

"Your" doctor may be doing you a favor. You and her obviously don't agree on what sort of testing and treatment is necessary, and absolutely no good can come of that. So why would you want to see her in the future? Better for both of you to part company than continue a distrustful relationship.

Assuming that you weren't physically removed from her office, but instead just told that she wasn't a good fit as your doctor and you should find another, then I honestly don't see it as unethical for her to ask you to find another doctor, Disappointing, of course, but doctors are under no obligation to share a particular patients views, and it is better they are upfront about it than dismissively nod their head and play along just to get along.

I once had an allergy doctor tell me: "In this office we give allergy shots. If you want something else you should probably go somewhere else." I thought that was excruciatingly honest by the doctor, and I followed his advice and never looked back.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

You and her obviously don't agree on what sort of testing and treatment is necessary, and absolutely no good can come of that

No, you're absolutely right. Not with a Dr that's lost sight of what their function is, which has little or nothing to do with supporting their ego. If the framework of her expertise is that narrow, it should be mentioned before the first appointment.

If she'd said something like, "I'm not sure what else I can do for you. Can you tell me why you object to this invasive procedure? And what you'd like instead?" she would have been in closer conformance to the profession she's chosen to pursue.

 

[percyval577]

My uncle once was told to have his knee opened, as it was swollen up.

He asked if they knew what it is. The said, no. He then said that he will not have his knee under the scalpel.

A doctor should well be able to explain what he is trying to succeed with.


(The knee stayed swollen up for the rest of his life, but never got worse.)

 

[gbells]

My doctor recommended an invasive test.
I chose not to do it.
She said that she could no longer
be my doctor.
Is this ethical?

Yes it's perfectly allowed. Doctors don't have to see patients past the time they need to arrange a referral. Any business relationship is completely voluntary.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Her arrogant and contemptuous behaviour towards you is unforgivable on a human level, and inexcusable on a professional one.

We have one senior Doctor who is like this. She has no soul.
They close ranks should you complain. The least she could do is preted to care but she can't even do that.
I came close to suggesting she retire and let someone more caring take her position.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Yes it's perfectly allowed. Doctors don't have to see patients past the time they need to arrange a referral. Any business relationship is completely voluntary.

Yes and no.

A Drs directive is to heal and/or cure, as rare as either of those may be. Dismissing a patient because they were reluctant to undertake an intrusive and possibly damaging procedure is against the ethics (stifled, choking laugh) of the profession, and certainly against the Hippocratic Oath.

Our relationship with our Drs are not just a 'business deal'. Your relationship with your plumber is. I'd like to think that our medical profession is held to higher ethical standards than the guy who Roto-Roots our drains.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

A doctor should well be able to explain what he is trying to succeed with.

Totally agree.

And in an odd bit of serendipity, you've been on my mind for the last two days. I was wondering where you went to, and how you were, and it's really good to bump into you here ....

 

[gbells]

We have one senior Doctor who is like this. She has no soul.
They close ranks should you complain. The least she could do is preted to care but she can't even do that.
I came close to suggesting she retire and let someone more caring take her position.

There are plenty of other doctors around. If I thought that my PCP wasn't using reasonable judgement I'd get rid of him. As it stands he listens to my arguments and then usually is reasonable. I also gave his ideas a fair shake-counseling and graded exercise therapy, but they didn't pan out of course. I have had to press some issues though. I think a doctor either learns to trust you over time or they don't. But the again there are always the few that don't believe in disability, secretly think ME is part mental disorder, etc.

 

[lenora]

There are plenty of other doctors around. If I thought that my PCP wasn't using reasonable judgement I'd get rid of him. As it stands he listens to my arguments and then usually is reasonable. I also gave his ideas a fair shake-counseling and graded exercise therapy, but they didn't pan out of course. I have had to press some issues though. I think a doctor either learns to trust you over time or they don't. But the again there are always the few that don't believe in disability, secretly think ME is part mental disorder, etc.

That is the bottom line, @gbells....whether or not your doctor trusts you. My neurologist is a firm believer in knowing the individual in all possible ways. From that you make your decisions. I think he's right....there are some patients who are untrustworthy and you have nothing but instinct to go on. You can counteract their needs by making an appt. for the next mo., and then one after that. It helps the patient/doctor relationship develop. Some meds can be started in the meantime if they're deemed necessary. No, a doctor shouldn't have to take an abusive patient anymore than a patient should be stuck with an abusive physician. I'm not saying this person was, so please don't think I'm saying that...but the medical styles are definitely different. Look at it this way: Would you continue with a dentist who couldn't/didn't do what you wanted? Yours Lenora.

 

[percyval577]

... Doctors don't have to see patients past the time they need to arrange a referral. Any business relationship is completely voluntary.

I don´t know the details, but I think a doctor is obligated to help if help is needed, and this then after any criteria.

So, my doc said to me, not she would have come to me, but I had come to her. But in fact I ran danger to damage ppl at work and needed help. So if I would have done mistakes at work because no doc had helped me, it would have become complicated, practically.

Our relationship with our Drs are not just a 'business deal'. Your relationship with your plumber is.

Though here, in contrast to craftsmen, the contract with doctors is only on the service, not on the result - otherwise nobody would like to become a doctor.

And in an odd bit of serendipity, you've been on my mind for the last two days. I was wondering where you went to, and how you were, and it's really good to bump into you here ....

And I am fighting with myself, by accident bumping here, hope everything is well with yo

 

[Sledgehammer]

There are plenty of other doctors around. If I thought that my PCP wasn't using reasonable judgement I'd get rid of him. As it stands he listens to my arguments and then usually is reasonable. I also gave his ideas a fair shake-counseling and graded exercise therapy, but they didn't pan out of course. I have had to press some issues though. I think a doctor either learns to trust you over time or they don't. But the again there are always the few that don't believe in disability, secretly think ME is part mental disorder, etc.

Not here. I'm in the U.K under NHS rules. A house full of non believers isn't worth debating with because as you said there are a few who think it's a mental disorder. I had to research the only place I could go for an assesment and demand my GP refer me. It's as if they didn't know there was a dept that dealt with the disease.
Perhaps I'm the only case to visit the surgery, I really don't know.

 

[gbells]

Though here, in contrast to craftsmen, the contract with doctors is only on the service, not on the result - otherwise nobody would like to become a doctor.

Interestingly, ancient Chinese doctors were only paid for good results. However with an illness that has no cure all you should expect is improvement and lessening of symptoms. If a doctor promises or implies that they might cure you with current treatments they are being unrealistic or misleading you.

 

[gbells]

Not here. I'm in the U.K under NHS rules. A house full of non believers isn't worth debating with because as you said there are a few who think it's a mental disorder. I had to research the only place I could go for an assesment and demand my GP refer me. It's as if they didn't know there was a dept that dealt with the disease.
Perhaps I'm the only case to visit the surgery, I really don't know.

Yes I've heard the UK is very oppressive and read cases of them torturing children with ME in mental institutions.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Yes I've heard the UK is very oppressive and read cases of them torturing children with ME in mental institutions.

It's a sad state of affairs here indeed. I can only guess many suffer in silence without any help at all.
All I can say is thank the lord for Phoenixrising. It's been my first port of call for information.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Interestingly, ancient Chinese doctors were only paid for good results.

They had a very simple system: you only paid your Dr while you were healthy and well. At the first sign of illness, payment ceased, treatment began, and, hopefully, payment could resume shortly after your illness was sorted and treated.

Brilliant.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

And I am fighting with myself, by accident bumping here, hope everything is well with yo

Sort of sideways or up and down, depending on how you look at it, which is better by miles than where I was during the worst few years of this.

Right now am in a sort of Christmas Blues slump ... hard time of the year for a lot of us ....

How are you doing?

PS .... The Thread Gnomes ask after you from time to time, they seem baffled by your disbelief , and even a little hurt . At least on those rare occasions when they approach something that could be mistaken for relative sobriety.