My B12 is dropping very fast, what could be the cause?

jason30

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Hi all,

My B12 is dropping very fast and I start with injections or the Greg's B12 transdermal oils soon.
But I wonder if someone have an idea why B12 could drop so fast?

2015 June:
MMA: 0,09
B12: 467
Active B12: Not measured

2018 April:
MMA: 0,23
B12: 351 pmol/l
Active B12: Not measured

2019 March:
MMA: 0,25
B12: 268 pmol/l
Active B12: 53 (45/140)

2019 May:
MMA: 0,28
B12: 202 pmol/l
Active B12: 42 (45/140)
Folate: 18.2 nmol/l (> 8 nmol/l)

2019 July:
MMA: 0,32
B12: 186 pmol/l
Active B12: 39

Supplements which I take on a regular basis:
  • TMG (since 2 years, 2 times a week)
  • Magnesium glycinate (since 2 years, 3 times a week)
  • BCAA (since 6 months, 3 times a week)
  • Cocktail: Liposomal vitamin C + lycine + himalaya salt (2 times a week, since 6 months)
  • Curcumin: 2 times a week (depends on symptoms)
  • Activated charcoal (since 2 years, 1 time in 2 weeks)
The BCAA and liposomal vitamin C + lycine are pretty new, since 6 months.

Does someone have an idea?

Thanks in advance for thinking along.
 

Learner1

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There are many reasons. B12 is used in methylation an essential process that happens in each of your cells, needed for immune function, DBA replication, detoxification, and Amy other things.. It's used in making glutathione, an important antioxidant. Oxidative stress is a known feature off ME/CFS. Infectioms can stress your syatem and cause higher usage.

Your level is low enough it could very begatively affect brain function. Likely tume to me on a more robust methylation protocol, as well as B12.

I take an avetage of 10mg of MB12 daily, plus 7mg folate, 350mg B6, 250mg B2, 800mg magnesium, 4g glycine, 3g NAC, 500mg B1 and 2g molybdenum to run methylation aling with extra liposomal glutathione.

You aren't on most of these - I suspect you may be short of some of them, too. Have you had any of then measured?
 

Hip

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But I wonder if someone have an idea why B12 could drop so fast?
Have you looked into pernicious anaemia, which is an autoimmune attack on the parietal cells in your stomach that produce intrinsic factor, which means you cannot absorb B12?

People with pernicious anaemia can be misdiagnosed as having ME/CFS, as the symptoms are similar.
 

taniaaust1

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The more stressed a person is, the more B they need. Also if you are a smoker and increase this, that too will use more Vit B.

Be aware that charcoal can stop the abortion of things (I'm not sure if it does this with vitamin B or not).
 

jason30

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Thanks all for thinking along and the insights.

There are many reasons. B12 is used in methylation an essential process that happens in each of your cells, needed for immune function, DBA replication, detoxification, and Amy other things.. It's used in making glutathione, an important antioxidant. Oxidative stress is a known feature off ME/CFS. Infectioms can stress your syatem and cause higher usage.

Your level is low enough it could very begatively affect brain function. Likely tume to me on a more robust methylation protocol, as well as B12.

I take an avetage of 10mg of MB12 daily, plus 7mg folate, 350mg B6, 250mg B2, 800mg magnesium, 4g glycine, 3g NAC, 500mg B1 and 2g molybdenum to run methylation aling with extra liposomal glutathione.

You aren't on most of these - I suspect you may be short of some of them, too. Have you had any of then measured?
I am checking the cofactors at this moment. I do know that I am low in molybdenum and zinc and also in reticulocytes. But I need to take molybdenum and zinc in very small amounts because small amounts already gives me detox reactions.

Lab results also shows that I am high in Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B1. This leads me to conversion problems. I have read that the MTHFR gene can contribute to this.

Next week I am going to do a lab test for the active B6, P5P and some other things. I suspect I am low in P5P.

Do you take MB12 injections? Did you first started with the cofactors or did you started with MB12 and the other things at the same time?

Is it possible that you might have SIBO becouse it can start deplete b12 .Pathogens in small intestines use the b12 before it is absorbed in to body.
That's interesting! I suspect SIBO for a long time, and I have this test at home which I have planned to do next week. But my SIBO symptoms are not increased the last few months. I suspect a dysbioses and want to test this as well.

maybe persistent inflammation constantly depletes it
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808848/
That could be one of the causes as well. Inflammation is there.

Have you looked into pernicious anaemia, which is an autoimmune attack on the parietal cells in your stomach that produce intrinsic factor, which means you cannot absorb B12?

People with pernicious anaemia can be misdiagnosed as having ME/CFS, as the symptoms are similar.
Very interesting Hip, I never heard about pernicious anaemia before. But this looks exactly what's going on. Because recent lab results shows that I am deficient in reticulocytes as well.
I am gonna request a test on Intrinsic factor (IF) to see if this plays a role. I have read that this needs to be done before starting with the injections/oils.

An other cause of pernicious anaemia according to NHS (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folate-deficiency-anaemia/causes/) is excessive peeing. And that is going on as well. This started months ago. I pee a lot, not normal. When I drink water then within 5 minutes I have to pee urgently. I have no idea yet what to do against this. But this can contribute to loose a lot of minerals/vitamins and folate (according to NHS).

The more stressed a person is, the more B they need. Also if you are a smoker and increase this, that too will use more Vit B.

Be aware that charcoal can stop the abortion of things (I'm not sure if it does this with vitamin B or not).
Yes, my stress level is a bit higher lately. I react badly to toxins in the environment, and there are more toxins in the current environment which I have to deal with. When I am exposed to toxins then it gives me internal stress. This definately contributes to it. I suspect this ends when I found another house.

Thanks again all!
 

Hip

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Very interesting Hip, I never heard about pernicious anaemia before. But this looks exactly what's going on.
Remember also that if you have enterovirus ME/CFS, which leads to an enterovirus infection of the stomach, it's actually the parietal cells that this virus infects.
 

Learner1

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I am checking the cofactors at this moment. I do know that I am low in molybdenum and zinc and also in reticulocytes. But I need to take molybdenum and zinc in very small amounts because small amounts already gives me detox reactions.

Lab results also shows that I am high in Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B1. This leads me to conversion problems. I have read that the MTHFR gene can contribute to this.

Next week I am going to do a lab test for the active B6, P5P and some other things. I suspect I am low in P5P.
You might see about folate, magnesium, and electrolyte levels - magnesium, potassium, calcium.
Do you take MB12 injections? Did you first started with the cofactors or did you started with MB12 and the other things at the same time?
Yes. I was on Thorne Methylguard Plus and Neurochondria and it wasn't enough, so we added high potency B complex and MB12 injection 3x a week plus HB12 every 10 days.

is excessive peeing. And that is going on as well. This started months ago. I pee a lot, not normal. When I drink water then within 5 minutes I have to pee urgently. I have no idea yet what to do against this. But this can contribute to loose a lot of minerals/vitamins and folate (according to NHS).
Might you be calcium deficient or diabetic? You might have electrolytes tested, as well as PTH (parathyroid), renin, aldosterone, etc.
 

Learner1

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jason30

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Remember also that if you have enterovirus ME/CFS, which leads to an enterovirus infection of the stomach, it's actually the parietal cells that this virus infects.
Yes I remember that you have mentioned this earlier, since then I am trying to find a good lab here in Europe.
I have found a lab which says to get some new test in August, also the EBV titers. But if you have any tips for reliable labs in Europe I would be glad to hear them.
 

jason30

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You might see about folate, magnesium, and electrolyte levels - magnesium, potassium, calcium.

Yes. I was on Thorne Methylguard Plus and Neurochondria and it wasn't enough, so we added high potency B complex and MB12 injection 3x a week plus HB12 every 10 days.

Might you be calcium deficient or diabetic? You might have electrolytes tested, as well as PTH (parathyroid), renin, aldosterone, etc.
Next week the folate RBC and magnesium RBC will be tested. Potassium is good. But I have never checked calcium though. I will include this in the next test.

Can excessive peeing be a symptom of a calcium deficiency?
For years I Always thought I have this pre-diabetic symptoms. Sometimes the blood Sugar is on the edge but mostly it's good. Though I have often very low blood sugar.

Did you not have any problems with the mehtyl forms?
Up to a certain point I can stand the methyl forms.

Thanks, I will check further into electrolytes, PTH and renin/aldosterone.
Recent blood test showed that Progestoron is low: 0,3 (ref. 0,5-2,0 nmol/l). No idea if this is connected to aldosterone. Cholesterol is also very low, for years. This is the building block for many hormones.
 

Hip

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But if you have any tips for reliable labs in Europe I would be glad to hear them.
The only lab in Europe which provides a coxsackievirus B antibody test sensitive enough to detect the chronic low level infections found in ME/CFS is the Hellenic Pasteur Institute in Greece. Otherwise you can send a serum sample by fast courier to ARUP Lab in the US, which Dr Chia uses for coxsackievirus B testing.
 

Learner1

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Can excessive peeing be a symptom of a calcium deficiency?
Yes. My doctor figured out I was extremely low in calcium after I was peeing like a horse!:woot:
Did you not have any problems with the mehtyl forms?
Up to a certain point I can stand the methyl forms.
Everyone needs methyl forms. Methylation is essential to life. People who "can't tolerate" them either have toxicity or an imbalance, or have been botlenecked for a while, and need to be carefully unstuck.
Cholesterol is also very low, for years. This is the building block for many hormones.
Mine too. I agree. Cholesterol that is too low is not good. You might check your other hormones and compensate if it seems prudent. I am female and find keeping DHEA and testosterone a bit high is helpful, and while I need pregnenolone, too much all goes to estradiol, which is not desirable... Cortisol production has been a problem but has improved as other areas have improved. It's an area worth working....