Minerals Make Me Incredibly Sore

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Hi all,

Does anyone have any idea why minerals, especially magnesium and zinc, make me incredibly sore? It's the same lactic acid feeling after an intense workout or exercise. It's noticeable in all muscles but shoulders in particular. Moving my arms becomes incredibly difficult and painful as a result. I've tried almost all forms of magnesium and zinc while attempting to balance with calcium and copper.

@alicec
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Judee

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My uneducated guess says it has something to do with the body's ability to absorb the minerals.

I have the same problem. Vitamin D does this to me as well...creates severe muscle aches and cramps...unless I take vitamin K2 with it and then I'm fine so I try to take my minerals and vit d3/k2 altogether but I still cannot take them daily.
 

prioris

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i think muscle atp energy is being depleted. try creatine half hour before workout. in my earlier years, without creatine, my muscles would be sore and fatigue faster ... with creatine+sugar mixture, i would hardly feel it ... how the minerals come onto play is uncertain ... zinc could be the culprit ... magnesium i don't think so
 
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Vitamin D does this to me as well...creates severe muscle aches and cramps...unless I take vitamin K2 with it and then I'm fine
@Judee
That's possibly because Vit D3 and any of the K's are supposed to be taken well apart. I separate by 10-12 hrs. It could be that the K2 is inhibiting the absorption of the D3, hence no reactions to it.

Just a guess.
 
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Hmm.

@prioris The problem does go away when I take a high quality B-Complex, L-Carnitine Fumarate and anything else that helps produce energy. Unfortunately, I find both of those too stimulating. I'll give Creatine a shot though.
 

prioris

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btw Fumarate is essentially a patented kind of Tartrate so Carnatine Tartrate is equivalent

Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCAR): used for cognitive enhancement
L-Carnitine L-Tartrate (LCLT): used for physical performance and power output.
Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine (GPLC) - This compound supports blood nitric oxide levels which promotes healthy blood flow especially to legs .... GlycoTrax.

they all seem to promote nitric acid in some way
 
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@prioris Thanks for that. I was unaware of the connection. A high quality multi or b complex with minerals on the side completely solves the problem. They're just too overstimulating even at the mildest of doses. I believe the root cause is histamine related so I'm pursuing Walsh's undermethylation protocol with SAM-e primarily but I know that could take quite awhile.
 
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you have any research links to this
Oh, I had always heard that these need to be taken together. Hmmmm. Thanks.
ACU-CELL:

Best time to take Vitamin D: Morning to afternoon; preferably with fatty food.

Vitamin D Synergists: Magnesium, boron, selenium*, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, lycopene, UV rays, Vitamin A*.

Vitamin D Antagonists / Inhibitors: Calcium, strontium, cadmium, Vitamin K*, Vitamin A*, alcohol, mineral oil, oral steroids.

* Dose-dependent - They are co-factors at normal levels, and antagonists at higher levels.

Best time to take Vitamin K: Morning to afternoon; preferably with fatty food.
Best time to take :
Cellular / Intracellular Attributes and Interactions:
Vitamin K Synergists: Calcium, copper, Vitamin B5, flavonoids, Vitamin D*. [Vitamin K protects against Vitamin D overdose].
Synergists:
Vitamin K Antagonists / Inhibitors:
Vitamin A, Vitamin E, mineral oil, oxalates, alcohol, Coenzyme Q10, blood thinners / anticoagulants (coumadin), Antibiotics - by killing intestinal bacteria.
Antagonists / Inhibitors:
*
Dose-dependent - They are co-factors at normal levels, and antagonists at higher levels.


DR. STEVEN LIN:

Take your Vitamin K2 supplement with your dinner that includes dietary fat or at bedtime, 8 to 12 hours after you take your Vitamin D3. Most people take their D3 with breakfast and K2 at dinner time and this seems sensible, as some research shows that D3 is more effective if not taken at the same time as K2.


CONSUMER LABS

However, evidence (mainly from animal and cell studies) suggests that moderate to large doses of fat-soluble vitamins reduce absorption of other fat-soluble vitamins - by about 10 to 50% - due to competition. Absorption of vitamin K appears to be particularly reduced by other fat-soluble vitamins……. (which would include Vit D)

While there do not appear to be substantial numbers of studies demonstrating reduced Vit K absorption in human subjects due to Vit D, it may be best to take Vit K at least 3 hours apart from Vit D, and not in combination “bone health” formulas which include Vit D. Keep in mind that such formulas are rarely clinically tested on human subjects for ingredient absorption, let alone for efficacy and safety.

A laboratory experiment using intestinal cells from mice found that uptake of Vit K was reduced by approximately half by Vitamins A, D, and E, likely due to competition for absorption among these fat-soluble vitamins (Goncalves, Food Chem 2015)


MENAQUINONE-7 SUPPLEMENTATION TO REDUCE VASCULAR CALCIFICATION IN PATIENTS WITH CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE (NCBI, MC, 2015 Nov; 7

Inhibition of the vitamin-K-cycle by vitamin K antagonists (VKA) results in the accumulation of uncarboxylated MGP which is biologically inactive. This is associated with extensive arterial calcification in experimental animals [5,8]. In line with the experimental data, humans on VKA treatment also tend to have more aortic and valve calcification in comparison to patients not on anticoagulant therapy.


As an aside, and from my own personal experience, Vitamin D doses will also inhibit or halt the production of melatonin, so it might also be wise to take Vitamin D with an earlier meal than dinner if you have problems with insomnia. I take mine with breakfast in order not to add anything more to the misery of the well-established insomnia effects experienced by so many of us here.

EDIT: For really wretched typing skills and impaired brain function.:)
 
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pamojja

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ACU-CELL

DR. STEVEN LIN:

CONSUMER LABS

MENAQUINONE-7 SUPPLEMENTATION TO REDUCE VASCULAR CALCIFICATION IN PATIENTS WITH CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE (NCBI, MC, 2015 Nov; 7
Thanks for finding reverences to that also alien to me recommendation of separating vitK and D intake.

However, I would like to comment that almost all predicted interactions given at ACU-CELL never panned out for me. So despite of its in dept of experimental information, practical its been mostly pretty useless to me. I seem to come from a different planet.

I always took high doses of vit D + Ks + preformed A + tocotrienols together with the first meal. And did get high levels of D3 and super high of K1 (at least, K2 would be so much more difficult to get it tested), only A was much slower in rising. While always taking tocopherols and K2 (too improtant to only take once a day) with the evening meal. Didn't experience a diminishing of the supposed effects of these fat-soluble vitamins at all.
 

BeADocToGoTo1

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Hi Tigger,

Are you sure it is zinc and magnesium, or could it be any other supplements you are taking? I get a similar achiness from taking vitamin D, especially larger dosages. I did see an increase in calcium levels after on large vitamin D supplements for a while, which can be linked to pain. Vitamin K is needed to bind with calcium, and vitamin D supplementation helps increase absorption of calcium from food. Have you had the following tested?

Calcium, albumin (for corrected calcium calculation), ionized calcium (bound to other minerals), parathyroid hormone PTH (helps regulate calcium, vitamin D, and phosphorus levels in the body), osteocalcin (vitamin K dependent calcium binding protein).
 
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@pamojja
almost all predicted interactions given at ACU-CELL never panned out for me
I tried to post all the sources I could quickly pull tgether out of files, cause not every source is accurate for every person, and some aren't accurate for anybody. I left those out.
I always took high doses of vit D + Ks + preformed A + tocotrienols together with the first meal. And did get high levels of D3 and super high of K1 (at least, K2 would be so much more difficult to get it tested), only A was much slower in rising.
There's no arguing with success, and if it works for you, it totally works for you!!! Everything about this miserable little chameleon curse of an illness is trial and error, because no general rule is actually functional for everybody, and every day with this is an act of courage and hope triumphing over experience.


I've read quite a few of your posts and I really like them and the way your mind works (ditto @Gondwanaland, another excellent mind and poster), so thank you for all those, and for responding to mine with additional, helpful info. :)
 
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