Michael Morris, MD in San Bernardino treats Chronic Fatigue and FM with T3

[CFS_for_19_years]

I found the website of Dr. Michael Morris and while anyone who has looked into thyroid treatment won't be shocked by the information, this doctor will treat you with T3. That is shocking!

http://t3doc.com

Here's an excerpt from this page
http://t3doc.com/about-the-practice

My name is Michael Morris, MD. I graduated from Cornell University Medical College in 1970. I have been practicing medicine for 42 years, mostly in emergency and general practice.

A while back while researching fibromyalgia I found a concept I had not seen before, namely the inability to convert the storage form of thyroid hormone T4 (brand name Synthroid) to it’s active form T3 (brand name Cytomel). Since T3 controls the metabolism of everything in the body, anyone not able to make T3 from inactive T4 is going to have a very under-active, slow metabolism, and will be seriously overweight (“Public Health Enemy #1”) and unable to lose weight, no matter how much dedicated diet and exercise.

Here's the outline of his protocol:
http://t3doc.com/t3-procedure-protocol-for-patients-mds

His facebook page shows patients' diaries of BP, pulse and weight.

If I lived near San Bernardino I'd look him up. He treats patients in person, not by distance.

 

[WillowJ]

That does seem to be unusual for an MD to treat with T3, and good find for those who need this.
http://thyroid.about.com/b/2009/01/...endocrinologists-dont-like-armour-thyroid.htm

It appears that he treats "chronic fatigue", not CFS per se. Some people mean ME by "chronic fatigue" (e.g., Dr. Klimas), but most people mean undiagnosed/idiopathic chronic fatigue. This seems to be what he means: the symptom of fatigue.

If you fit the hypothyroid, sure, that could help, but not all with ME/CFS have this problem.

I don't think labs are useless, though. The "normal" ranges seem to need some adjusting, but I have never heard anywhere else that they are unreliable in what value they give, or anything like that.

There does exist a lab test for T3
http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/t3/tab/test

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

It appears that he treats "chronic fatigue", not CFS per se. Some people mean ME by "chronic fatigue" (e.g., Dr. Klimas), but most people mean undiagnosed/idiopathic chronic fatigue. This seems to be what he means: the symptom of fatigue.

WillowJ, thanks for pointing this out - I've changed the title of this thread. My eyes must have been glazed over in some late-night web surfing and missed that part. I searched his site to see if he made any references to chronic fatigue syndrome and there was only one here:

http://t3doc.com/the-miracle-of-t3/

While my main purpose is to attack the number one health problem in the country today, obesity, there are many other symptoms of chronic hypothyroidism that are “cured” by using T3 instead of the routine T4. Prominent among these are chronic unremitting fatigue and physical weakness. Chronic fatigue syndrome is more and more getting lumped together with fibromyalgia, as chronic fatigue is one of several problems occurring with fibromyalgia. I recently started a friend with this problem on T3, anticipating an eventual daily dose similar to T4, 100 – 200 mcg, but started very cautiously with a tiny dose of 10 mcg. An hour after the first 10 mcg pill she vacuumed her whole house. No question about cause and effect. No double blind studies needed.

He reminds me of the late Dr. John Lowe who treated FM with thyroid meds. Maybe that's where he got his inspiration. I think it would be a stretch to say that thyroid meds could cure CFS/ME - if so many of us would be cured by now. His friend who was helped with 10mcg of T3 was probably short of T3 to begin with and I doubt if it resolved all of her problems.

But yeah, I thought he might be a good resource for someone living near him if they had FM - don't know about the CFS/ME part though. It looks like he helped one woman with CFS get rid of some fatigue.

When I was being treated with T3 and T4 for hypothyroidism, the thyroid meds barely brought me back to my previous level of functioning. Previous to becoming I hypothyroid I was about a 4/10 energy-wise, when hypothyroid I was a 1/10. After taking thyroid meds, I was only a 3/10. (I never got my previous level of energy back.) Thyroid meds did not make my CFS/ME/FM any better or give me an extra boost. I wanted to add that just in case someone might think that thyroid meds will be the miracle drug for them. "Pushing" for ever-higher levels of thyroid meds didn't make one bit of difference in my energy levels once I had leveled out.

 

[WillowJ]

I think hypothyroid is hypothyroid (not FM or anything else), but many people with FM or ME/CFS do have hypothyroid additionally (or could be misdiagnosed with FM or CFS). If anyone have hypothyroid, it seems worthwhile to attempt treatment.

I'm glad thyroid meds helped if even some for you, @CFS_for_19_years

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I don't know if I stressed this enough, but many doctors will treat with T4 only and think T3 is unsafe. Many thyroid patients can't convert T4 to the active form T3, and get left feeling no better than when they started treatment. I was in that category and had to beg my primary doc for T3 and she really dug her heels in. My endo, on the other hand, does see the value of using T3 when T4 isn't working, so I should be good to go this time if it comes to that.

It looks like this doctor is very careful in how he prescribes T3. It takes a bit more time on his part and on the part of the patient to make sure they don't overshoot the correct dose.

 

[drob31]

High and Low cortisol will prevent t3 from being accessed by the cells. Very low TBG will cause thyroid hormone resistance. The DIO2 gene will prevent good conversion from t4 to t3. Low leptin will downregulate metabolism and TSH.

T3 won't be the solution for those for CFS or ME, but it will be the solution for those who can't convert. I'm not sure how well it will do with high cortisol, as that may be the problem I'm facing.

 

[knackers323]

Is there any way to tell if your not converting to T3?

Has anyone felt better with thyroid meds or supps like kelp (iodine) or anything?

 

[Little Bluestem]

You can tell if you are converting to T3 by having your Free T4, Free T3, and Reverse T3 tested.

Sometimes I think it is a case of the body being unwilling rather than unable to convert T4 to T3. Some people think that the body does this to protect itself and that taking (very much) T3 could be bad for you.

I am currently taking T3, 5 mcg twice/day. I don't feel much better, but I think this may be because there are too many other things still not working correctly. I figure a more normal T3 level probably won't hurt.

 

[knackers323]

Anyone know a good place to buy T3 without a prescription on the net?

 

[drob31]

Anyone know a good place to buy T3 without a prescription on the net?

Yes.

 

[drob31]

You can tell if you are converting to T3 by having your Free T4, Free T3, and Reverse T3 tested.

Sometimes I think it is a case of the body being unwilling rather than unable to convert T4 to T3. Some people think that the body does this to protect itself and that taking (very much) T3 could be bad for you.

I am currently taking T3, 5 mcg twice/day. I don't feel much better, but I think this may be because there are too many other things still not working correctly. I figure a more normal T3 level probably won't hurt.

There are so many things that can cause down regulation, especially via the PVN. There are also a lot of things that can shutdown t3 receptors such as excess cortisol, cytokines, and homocystiene.

 

[knackers323]

Is there much danger taking small doses of t3, say 10mcg daily, if we don't need it according to tests?

Anyone else tried it?

 

[drob31]

Is there much danger taking small doses of t3, say 10mcg daily, if we don't need it according to tests?

Anyone else tried it?

In my personal situation wasn't any "danger" in trying it. It didn't work for my because it overstimulated my adrenals which were already producing high amounts of cortisol. It could certainly be an issue for others though. Some suggest titrating up from 2.5 mcg, however.

I would be willing to bet that most people with thyroid issues really have adrenal issues.

 

[knackers323]

I'm taking 6mcg twice a day and getting a mild fluttering/anxiety feeling in the chest is this a startup effect or does it mean I'm taking too much or I don't need it?

It's been a great energy booster so far but only been one week. Thanks

 

[knackers323]

Anyone?

 

[drob31]

I'm taking 6mcg twice a day and getting a mild fluttering/anxiety feeling in the chest is this a startup effect or does it mean I'm taking too much or I don't need it?

It's been a great energy booster so far but only been one week. Thanks

Usually you would get this feeling as you were "adjusting" to the dose. What you're feeling is the t3 being used up very quickly which is what happens with oral t3. There's no way it can mimic your bodies natural production, so some people pulse it 4-5 times a day.

Also, you must have adequate cortisol if you're body is able to use it like this, at least adequate when you took it. In my case, it had a cortisol raising effect.

 

[xks201]

High and Low cortisol will prevent t3 from being accessed by the cells. Very low TBG will cause thyroid hormone resistance. The DIO2 gene will prevent good conversion from t4 to t3. Low leptin will downregulate metabolism and TSH.

T3 won't be the solution for those for CFS or ME, but it will be the solution for those who can't convert. I'm not sure how well it will do with high cortisol, as that may be the problem I'm facing.

I've seen high cortisol in almost everyone with hypothyroidism due to thyroid resistance, conversion problems, or just low thyroid levels. Thyroid is needed for cortisol to enter the cells.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I've seen high cortisol in almost everyone with hypothyroidism due to thyroid resistance, conversion problems, or just low thyroid levels. Thyroid is needed for cortisol to enter the cells.

I've always had a low cortisol, around 7 or so. I can't convert T4 to T3. I learned that the hard way when my primary doc would only prescribe T4. I didn't respond until I was given T3. Prior to being given T3, I was getting up at 3 p.m. My hypothyroidism was lithium-induced and affected me for about 6 months (just a little background info).

 

[xks201]

I've always had a low cortisol, around 7 or so. I can't convert T4 to T3. I learned that the hard way when my primary doc would only prescribe T4. I didn't respond until I was given T3. Prior to being given T3, I was getting up at 3 p.m. My hypothyroidism was lithium-induced and affected me for about 6 months (just a little background info).

And you never got your low cortisol treated or got an acth stim test to further verify it as low?

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

And you never got your low cortisol treated or got an acth stim test to further verify it as low?

I did both, thanks. ACTH stim test result was normal. One integrative medical doctor did give me prescriptions for hydrocortisone, pregnenolone and DHEA. As I recall, I couldn't tolerate the hydrocortisone. This was about 8 years ago, so my memories are fuzzy.