Methylation cycle guru's. High homocysteine

heapsreal

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I have done b12/Folate etc in the past but no obvious improvements. After my head issues apart of my brain mri said small blood vessels inflammation, early this year.

So homocysteine 2 years ago was 21 (1-15). Im really just aiming at lower homocysteine. Recent blood work showed H-cysteine was 16. So its coming down.

I was on a homocysteine formula b6 100mg, b12 2000mg, folate 400iu, nac, zinc etc.
Plus always on an antioxidant regime.

Ive just changed over.
Jarrows b12 5000iu/methylfolate 800iu bid.
B6 supplement 100mg bid.
TMG 500mg daily. Above for homocysteine and methylation.

Plus usual antioxidants q10, nac, lipoic acid, choline/inositol, carnitine, vit E, immune support - vitC, zinc, vitD. Then fishoil, glucosamine, magnesium, potassium and vitD.

Anything to add etc. Low carb eating too.

Opions or thoughts welcome🤔🤔
 

nerd

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Sounds good. I hope the TMG can get it down even further.

I use lecithin instead of choline because it's not as short-lived. Has anyone opinions or experiences on that?
 

Pyrrhus

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I use lecithin instead of choline because it's not as short-lived. Has anyone opinions or experiences on that?
I can share what I have in my notes about choline, which may help:

Lecithin contains phosphatidyl-choline (PC), which is one of the three main forms of supplemental choline.
100mg PC contains 13mg choline.

The other main forms of supplemental choline are citicoline (CDP-choline) and glycero-phospho-choline (GPC).
100mg GPC contains 40mg choline.

Milk contains both PC and GPC. Both PC and GPC are naturally found in the brain.
CDP-choline is temporarily made by the body when synthesizing its own PC.

Since choline synthesis in the body consumes a large percentage of the body's methyl donors, taking supplemental choline should free up a large percentage of the body's methylation capacity.

Choline should not be taken at the same time as carnitine, as they compete with each other for transport across the blood-brain-barrier.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "short-lived". Just because the choline disappears from the blood doesn't mean that it disappears from the body. A lot of choline is stored in cell membranes and any excess choline is converted to betaine (TMG).

I hope this helps.
 

heapsreal

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I can share what I have in my notes about choline, which may help:

Lecithin contains phosphatidyl-choline (PC), which is one of the three main forms of supplemental choline.
100mg PC contains 13mg choline.

The other main forms of supplemental choline are citicoline (CDP-choline) and glycero-phospho-choline (GPC).
100mg GPC contains 40mg choline.

Milk contains both PC and GPC. Both PC and GPC are naturally found in the brain.
CDP-choline is temporarily made by the body when synthesizing its own PC.

Since choline synthesis in the body consumes a large percentage of the body's methyl donors, taking supplemental choline should free up a large percentage of the body's methylation capacity.

Choline should not be taken at the same time as carnitine, as they compete with each other for transport across the blood-brain-barrier.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "short-lived". Just because the choline disappears from the blood doesn't mean that it disappears from the body. A lot of choline is stored in cell membranes and any excess choline is converted to betaine (TMG).

I hope this helps.
I do like alpha gpc but it get costly using it all the time. It helps me with mental energy more noticeably than choline supps. For neuro energy effects i find i have to cycle off and on, currently not going off choline.
 

heapsreal

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Sounds good. I hope the TMG can get it down even further.

I use lecithin instead of choline because it's not as short-lived. Has anyone opinions or experiences on that?
I plan to retest homocysteine in 8 weeks. Im interested to see how the tmg goes as well as how i feel when i get homocysteine lower. I will keep lecithin in mind for a choline source😉
 

nerd

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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "short-lived". Just because the choline disappears from the blood doesn't mean that it disappears from the body. A lot of choline is stored in cell membranes and any excess choline is converted to betaine (TMG).
Choline is rapidly metabolized. TMG might be depleted by the methylation dysfunction, leaving you with no other source than lecithin. This is why I had the notion that lecithin might be the better choice to balance the choline function.
 

heapsreal

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Just bumping this thread so i can find it easier as im retesting friday. I have stuck with the above supps for now. Depending on my results, i will adjust things as mentioned by others.

Dont think i mentioned this but im also taking 6000mcg injection of hydroxocobalamine twice per week, so getting plenty of b12.

I cant say its helping me but maybe its a longer process of improvement once homocysteine is down and gives time for the body to repair, as inflammation is down, i hope🤞

Im getting good pain relief for headaches and suprisingly back pain from low dose effexor. Was hoping it might give me some energy but instead i feel more lethargic. Changing it to a nightly does has helped some.

While im ranting, ive gone back on doxycycline for possible bacterial infections related to cfs and this has helped in the past. I may be getting die off symptoms from this but hard to tell as have a few things on the go. Dam covid interrupted my supply of meds that was working well for me. So im doing it all again.

Time will tell.
 

Learner1

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@heapsreal

Have you tried taking methylcobalamin, instead of hydroxycobalamin?

Or pyridoxal-5-phosphate form of B6? Have you tested B6 level? There are about 100 pathways that compete to use it. You may have something (oxalates is a common one) using it up too fast.

Or have you checked zinc level?
 

heapsreal

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@heapsreal

Have you tried taking methylcobalamin, instead of hydroxycobalamin?

Or pyridoxal-5-phosphate form of B6? Have you tested B6 level? There are about 100 pathways that compete to use it. You may have something (oxalates is a common one) using it up too fast.

Or have you checked zinc level?
I started on methylb12 first.
Zinc im taking 10mg bid
B6 not tested, taking 100mg bid. P5P is in jarrows has 10mg bid.
Homocysteine doesnt come down then i will do more testing on different nutrients.
 

Learner1

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I started on methylb12 first.
Zinc im taking 10mg bid
B6 not tested, taking 100mg bid. P5P is in jarrows has 10mg bid.
Homocysteine doesnt come down then i will do more testing on different nutrients.
I use testing to determine needs. I need 60mg zinc picolinate daily to keep my level sufficient. I've also needed up to 350mg daily of P5P to keep up with my need. Not saying you need those doses, but the doses you're on might leave room for further supplementation.

As for B12, not sure why you're on high dose HB12 when MB12 might be more useful.
 

heapsreal

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I use testing to determine needs. I need 60mg zinc picolinate daily to keep my level sufficient. I've also needed up to 350mg daily of P5P to keep up with my need. Not saying you need those doses, but the doses you're on might leave room for further supplementation.

As for B12, not sure why you're on high dose HB12 when MB12 might be more useful.
HB12 is injectable and increases blood levels more effectively and i can get it very cheap. In the past its helped.
Ive just looked into some nutrient testing recently but it will be on my waiting list to do. It wont be a test i can afford with any regularity .
 

heapsreal

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I use testing to determine needs. I need 60mg zinc picolinate daily to keep my level sufficient. I've also needed up to 350mg daily of P5P to keep up with my need. Not saying you need those doses, but the doses you're on might leave room for further supplementation.

As for B12, not sure why you're on high dose HB12 when MB12 might be more useful.
Forgot to mention another reason for hydroxocobalamine injections was they were apart of Dr Cheneys original protocols where people took 10mg of HB12 three times per week. If i recall correctly it was because they scavenge peroxynitrate, which is a pro-oxidant and inflammatory.

I tried this protocol years ago with some initial improvement and then it plateaued out. But i did find if i was in a 'crash', 6mg shot of b12 could help on some occassions. This time im using it with other supplements to lower homocysteine and to see if it helps with persistent headaches.
 

Learner1

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MB12 will scavenge peroxynitrites just as well as HB12. I have tested it out with corresponding lab results. Peroxynitrites damage mitochondrial membranes and impair complex I. They can also damage DNA.

Perhaps you ran out of methyl groups?
 

acrosstheveil

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P5P made my homocysteine skyrocket and gave me blood clots. don't know why. but it is extremely dangerous for me. R5P was similar...