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Mercury poisoning & enteroviruses

Sinclair

Senior Member
Messages
129
Hello,

I am interested in gathering information or experiences regarding the link between these two areas of inquiry, and I found the paper below, a mice experiment reported in 2012 that suggests, if I am not wrong, that severity of enteroviruses infections might increase when mercury overload is already present in the body, but not so when mercury is added after the enterovirus infection.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984480

Could any generous mind give me any insight or report any experience on it?

Thanks!
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
It looks like they found an increase in IL-17 levels when the Hg was present before infection. IL-17 seems to be a pretty potent inducer of tissue damage from what I recall.

Unfortunately I can't add much more as my heavy metal tests came back negative for Hg very soon after getting sick.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
It looks like they found an increase in IL-17 levels when the Hg was present before infection. IL-17 seems to be a pretty potent inducer of tissue damage from what I recall.

Unfortunately I can't add much more as my heavy metal tests came back negative for Hg very soon after getting sick.

Just keep in mind that your hair and urine tests for mercury can be low because you excrete it poorly so it could paradoxically indicate high levels in tissues that matter like brain and other organs.
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
Just keep in mind that your hair and urine tests for mercury can be low because you excrete it poorly so it could paradoxically indicate high levels in tissues that matter like brain and other organs.
It was a blood panel, but I suppose the possibility could always be there.
 

jepps

Senior Member
Messages
519
Location
Austria
Just keep in mind that your hair and urine tests for mercury can be low because you excrete it poorly so it could paradoxically indicate high levels in tissues that matter like brain and other organs.

Thank you for posting this.
This was so in my case: I did chelations, but the chelation test showed no mercury, and thought: Where is all my amalgame?:cat: Did I excrete so well, but why am I ill?:ill:

After starting methylation, I began to release metal, but most mercury is released since treating candida.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
According to Dr Cutler, a blood test is elevated only in acute poisoning and totally useless after that.

Yep, the hair test (if carefully interpreted) is what tells you the probability of your mercury load.

Once you are past the exposure stage, the mercury you have taken in has either been excreted or has lodged in organs & brain. That's why blood & urine tests are of no use after the exposure stage - the mercury is your body is no longer in the blood or urine in any quantity.
 
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Messages
42
Mercury depletes selenium which is necessary for glutathione peroxidase (an important antioxidant) which inhibits viral infections. Mercury poisoned mice infected with Coxsackie B3 virus had 50% more inflammation of the heart wall than controls and gamma interferon levels that were twice as high.

Selenium deficiency and concurrent Coxsackie B infection was responsible for a number of outbreaks of Keshan disease ( a cardiomyopathy) in northeastern China.

Ilbäck, N. G., Wesslén, L., Fohlman, J., & Friman, G. (1996). Effects of methyl mercury on cytokines, inflammation and virus clearance in a common infection (coxsackie B3 myocarditis). Toxicology letters, 89(1), 19-28.
 

melamine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Upstate NY
@Sinclair - My experience may support the theory. I tested high for mercury by DMPS, having an extensive history of exposure to dental mercury. Testing showed chronic-elevated titers for all coxsacki Bs (borderline B4). I experienced two very bad infections many years post-original infection, at least one of which appeared to one doctor to be enteroviral. The three worst infections in my life were unusual in presentation and range of symptoms, and each of them caused permanent damage.
 

melamine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Upstate NY
@David Hammond - I was referred from the doctor who did the testing to another one who prescribed a course of oral chelation. I learned later that it should not have been prescribed while I still had 2 mercury fillings. Although I felt neither better nor worse during or afterward, I became very ill a few months later with a severe flu-like(+) infection that was a big factor in advancing illness. It was not the first of its kind in its unusualness and post-chronicity, and there was an intervening immune function challenge vaccine about a week or so before the start of the infection. For those reasons I would not say there was a clear cause and effect, just one more insult.

Extensive dental revision to remove mercury, root canals, etc., and to do restorations required major planning and mucho $ and was delayed until a couple years ago. It is still not finished but enough that I am able to start experimenting with therapies, for which information on PR has been a major help in sorting through it all. I am trying to read and absorb as much as possible here and elsewhere.

According to some of the recommendations and from personal experience, I should probably be trying to improve methylation first, or at most adding only the mildest kinds of chelators, such as the Kyolic detox formula I am currently using. I have started experimenting with the B12s and folate + K and ALC fumerate. I think these things will keep me busy for awhile since there appears to be no standard dosing or schedule.

I plan on doing another course of Lufenuron soon for Candida, but would like to be more prepared for any potential release of mercury in the gut this time, even though I don't recall any telltale symptoms the last time I used it. I order mine from Vaughter Wellness, in Europe, which is the most economical source.

I have also begun using my FIR sauna on a regular basis. At first it made me feel sicker and I stopped using if for a long time, but I have found a routine that is not too intense and seems to agree with me. At bedtime I have started using clay or sometimes charcoal.

Barring any major setbacks, which are unpredictable, I would like to eventually try a stronger chelator, possibly frequent dose ALA/DMSA, but not anytime soon and whatever I settle on will need to be not too complicated.
 
Messages
42
@aquariusgirl Dr Shade's test could be useful as it may indicate whether organic or inorganic mercury is more of an issue for you. Alpha lipoic acid only chelates inorganic mercury, while DMPS and DMSA chelate both forms. The test is quite expensive and like other forms of testing does not tell you how much mercury is sequestered inside the cells of the body - low levels of mercury in the blood and urine does not necessarily mean you do not have significant amounts of intracellular mercury.

The definitive test is a trial of low dose chelation - if your symptoms are exacerbated or improved it is confirmation that mercury is responsible for your symptoms.
 

liverock

Senior Member
Messages
748
Location
UK
Mercury levels where found to be 22,000 times higher than controls in Idiopathic Dilated Cardiomyopathy heart tissue tests in this University of Rome study. Other amalgam trace elements such as silver and antimony where also shown to be highly elevated compared with controls.

http://mercuryexposure.info/wordpre...ents_in_idiopathic_dilated_cardiomyopathy.pdf

A large increase (.10,000 times for mercury and antimony) of TE concentration has been observed in myocardial but not in muscular samples in all pts with IDCM. Patients with secondary cardiac dysfunction had mild increase (#5 times) of myocardial TE and normal muscular TE. In particular, in pts with IDCM mean mercury concentration was 22,000 times (178,400 ng/g vs. 8 ng/g), antimony 12,000 times (19,260 ng/g vs. 1.5 ng/g), gold 11 times (26 ng/g vs. 2.3 ng/g), chromium 13 times (2,300 ng/g vs. 177 ng/g) and cobalt 4 times (86,5 ng/g vs. 20 ng/g) higher than in control subjects.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984480

Could any generous mind give me any insight or report any experience on it?

There is some discussion on the findings of this coxsackievirus B myocarditis study here.

As you have stated, the study found that the level of mercury in your body at the time you caught the coxsackievirus B infection has an effect on how severe the subsequent chronic coxsackievirus B autoimmune myocarditis gets; but any further exposure to inorganic mercury during the chronic stage of infection was not found to worsen the myocarditis.

I am thinking this result perhaps suggests that reducing mercury levels in the chronic stage of infection (as ME/CFS is in) might not have any benefits in terms of quelling the infection.


Mercury levels where found to be 22,000 times higher than controls in Idiopathic Dilated Cardiomyopathy heart tissue tests in this University of Rome study.

The study authors also said that:
The more reliable, although unconfirmed, pathogenetic hypothesis for IDCM, is that of a virus-induced disease. It has been documented that a common viral (Coxsackie virus) infection can change trace element target organ distribution in mice with greatly increased accumulation of nickel (11), cadmium and mercury (12) in the wall of the ventricular myocardium. We can speculate that a cardiac viral infection might induce an impairment of cellular biomembranes, which could, in turn, increase the input or reduce the output of certain trace elements, determining toxic intracellular concentrations.

So these high levels of mercury in the heart muscle appear to be a consequence of the assumed persistent viral infection taking place in the heart in IDCM, rather than the cause of the persistent viral infection. Although the authors do say that "the extremely high values of Hg and Sb found in our patients with IDCM makes it unlikely that there would be no adverse effect".

But bear in mind that the study on coxsackievirus B myocarditis found that further exposure to inorganic mercury in the chronic stage of infection does not worsen the myocarditis. So as the chronic heart muscle infection induces a build-up of mercury in the heart, this might not worsen the infection.

There are several other studies that show coxsackievirus B infections redistribute mercury and other trace elements in the body:
Altered distribution of heavy metals and lipids in coxsackievirus B3 infected mice
New aspects of murine coxsackie B3 myocarditis--focus on heavy metals
Selenium and mercury are redistributed to the brain during viral infection in mice

This study also found a redistribution of trace elements in coxsackievirus B infection:
Changes in trace elements during CVB3 infection

During the 7 days of the acute CVB3 infection, the balance of essential and non-essential trace elements was changed. The most consistent changes were found in Se, which decreased in all organs except the heart, and in As, which decreased in all organs except the kidney, spleen and brain. The decrease in As was in the same range as in previous studies of this infection (15, 52). Possibly, these changes are specific for viral infections because C. pneumoniae infection in mice did not significantly affect Se and As in serum or heart (38). Furthermore, in the present study a negative correlation was found between viral RNA and Se concentration in serum, liver, pancreas and intestine.

Other investigators have shown that an adequate Se status is important for a positive outcome of various infections of both viral and bacterial origin (9, 10, 21, 88). For example, Se deficiency in infected mice has been shown to increase the virulence of the infecting CVB3 through changes in the viral genome (12), whereas increased activity of a Se-containing protein recently was found to reduce the replication of HIV-1 in vitro (88). Se is a constituent of different selenoproteins and required for the functioning of neutrophils, macrophages, NK cells and T-lymphocytes (26). Moreover, Se is an essential part of the antioxidant enzyme glutathione peroxidase (26). It is thus evident that Se has a role in the host defence. Furthermore, Se supplementation has been found to reduce the development of inflammatory lesions that occur in CVB3-induced myocarditis (86). With this in mind, it appears that Se may exert its antiviral effects directly by inhibiting viral replication and affecting cells of the immune system. However, several viruses (e.g., CVB3, hepatitis B and C, HIV-1 and 2) are capable of making viral selenoproteins and thereby reducing the host selenium supply (170, 171), indicating that supplementation of Se may not be an efficient anti-viral treatment strategy for all types of viral infection.
So selenium was found to inhibit viral replication in coxsackievirus B infections. More info on the antiviral effect of selenium in this thread: High Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog.



Note that idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy (IDCM) is sometimes seen to arise after coxsackievirus B myocarditis.

Profs Steven Tracy and Nora Chapman have proposed that studying the chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections of coxsackievirus B myocarditis will likely provide insight into the chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections found in ME/CFS patients.
 
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Sinclair

Senior Member
Messages
129
Many thanks for your replies.

I recently confirmed enterovirus chronic infection (CVB2, CVB4, Echo 30), plus CMV and CPN, and for 6 months I have followed anti-enterovirus therapy with noticeable improvements (Equilibrant, Isoprinosine), recently starting on Epivir.

My hair test shows 2.8 in Mercury (moderate high) and high Arsenic too. I have had a couple of ammalgams for 20 years and plan to visit a biological dentist in a few weeks. I was very hopeful when I discovered heavy metal toxicity as a likely path for recovery. However the ME/CFS doctor I visited is not a believer in it (he recalled a patient that after chelation had lost 25% right kidney function, with no improvements in ME/CFS symptoms) and I suspect my liver may be too weak for chelation. However, I have not discarded this and @David Hammond 's book has been a good incentive to keep the faith in this path, that it may work if I don't get further improvement with the anti-enteroviral approach.

I suspect SNPs too in my case, since I tested high for homocysteine and I have had good response to active B12 methylation + folinic acid support. Sadly I have not been able to test for SNPs yet.

The only thing I have been partially able to discard is Pyroluria, for which I am only borderline.

So, at this point, where I am suffering -due to a weak liver amongst others- of side effects of Epivir as phase III anti-enterovirus therapy, I would strongly appreciate your feedback on the following:

1. Any tip for liver protection/treatment (beyond increased Selenium and milk thistle both of which have been of some help);

2. Any reason that supports that ammalgam removal / chelation may be a worthwhile path to try in my specific case (what to watch for, regarding symptoms and response to supplements, for instance)....my hair test is not severe high for mercury or arsenic but just moderate high...is it worthwhile to try a provocation test? (my responses to Selenium, zinc and oxygenation and the progressive onset of my illness are other factors that attract my attention to this field too); and my bottom line is this: enterovirus infection + mercury poisoning + SNPs is a perfect storm that could explain my ME/CFS.

Much appreciated.

S.
 
Messages
42
@Sinclair Mercury may be responsible for your inverted CD4/CD8 ratio. The following study was done on workers in a mercury producing plant. These are not the best subjects for these studies as they are probably good excretors - otherwise they would get sick shortly after starting their job (as I did) and leave.

Queiroz, M. L., & Dantas, D. C. (1997). T lymphocytes in mercury-exposed workers. Immunopharmacology and immunotoxicology, 19(4), 499-510. http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08923979709007671

Abstract
In this work we have investigated the changes in T-helper and T-suppressor cells and T-cell proliferative response to phytohemagglutinin (PHA) in mercury-exposed workers. The study group consisted of 33 workers from a mercury-producing plant with a mean age of 29 years and a mean exposure period of 19 months. At the time of testing, and for the three previous months, the exposed population had urinary mercury levels below the currently accepted limit of 50 ug/g creatinine.

A reverse CD4+/CD8+ ratio was observed in the mercury-exposed individuals which was characterized by a reduction in the number of CD4+ lymphocytes. No changes were observed in the proliferative response of lymphocytes from exposed individuals to PHA. Similarly, no proliferative response was observed when lymphocytes from normal individuals were cultivated in the presence of serum from the exposed workers. We found no correlations between lymphocytes changes and urinary mercury concentrations, time of exposure or the age of the workers.


1 You might like to try artichoke (instead of or in addition to) to see if you helps your liver more than milk thistle. Ox bile may also help. I find 500 mg causes a burning sensation in my stomach so I only take one third of a capsule.

2 My hair test showed only moderate levels of mercury (it was 30 years after I was poisoned)- hair tests only show how much your body is excreting - not the amount in your cells. The most reliable test is a trial of frequent low dose chelation. It sounds like you are pretty sick so you could start with doses as low as 1mg DMPS every 6 hours or 1 mg lipoic acid every 3 hours and see if your symptoms are exacerbated or improved. Either reaction is confirmation that mercury is at least partly responsible for your symptoms. I would never advise taking large doses of chelators for provocation tests - some people have a severe reaction which takes many months to recover from.

Do you have a problem with high thiol foods? This is also very common in mercury poisoning. You could try excluding them for a couple of weeks to see how you feel.

What were your responses to zinc and selenium?

Dave.
 
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