ME/CFS and ligament laxity?

[filfla4]

Hi, I'm relatively new to this forum so forgive me if this doesn't make much sense.

I'm 48yrs old and have had this condition for 16 years now. I'm perimenopausal and am currently struggling as my symptoms have seriously worsened, probably due to an obvious hormone imbalance at this juncture.

13 years ago I dislocated my pelvis in childbirth which doctors never connected to cfs....although I definitely believe there is a connection.

I am now having problems with my left foot (nine months now) and have had various diagnoses from an orthopaedic surgeon and two physiotherapists, ranging from plantar fasciitis to a collapsed metatarsal arch......for me none of these really seem to describe what is going on and wonder whether my foot is actually 'spreading' due to ligament laxity.

Have any of you experienced this? Any thoughts?

Thanks!!!

 

[Francelle]

Yes! Plantar fasciitis and ligamentous laxity both diagnosed by my Podiatrist. Being a Podiatrist he was mostly interested in my ankle laxity however my finger joints are very loose and now are getting locked in position especially in the mornings. I can also touch the floor with the palms of my hands and knees locked.

Will be interested to know if this is common in M.E./FMS.

 

[Countrygirl]

Hi Francelle and filfla4,

I have the same condition. I could wrap my feet round my neck, place my palms flat on the ground without bending my knees and was referred to as 'double-jointed', until arthritis set in. I was told recently by a doctor who specialises in ME that there might be a connection between the two because it means that the ligaments and other structures (heart valves, I think she said) are equally slack. It is called hyper-reflexia.

C.G.

 

[helsbells]

Actually I think I can shed a little light on this, I will start a new thread on it as I have been meaning to share this for a while.

 

[HopingSince88]

Double-jointedness or hypermobility may be associated with Ehlers-Danlos and many of us have these symptoms. Here are several threads on this subject, which may be of interest to you.

http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...nlos-anybody-(Hypermobility)&highlight=Danlos


http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...nybody-(Hypermobility)&highlight=Ehler+Danlos




on Ehler Danlos and fading fingerprints:
http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?228-Fingerprints&highlight=Danlos

 

[filfla4]

Thanks for the info/links and thanks for starting up that new thread, which I will read slowly. However I don't think I'm double-jointed!! My personal theory is that it may be something to do with hormones, which is why I dislocated my pelvis in childbirth and why I'm now having problems with my foot when I'm also going through menopause. Does this make any sense? Has anyone related this to hormonal issues?

Thanks!!

 

[cfs since 1998]

When I started olive leaf extract I "herxed" for several months. During this time it sometimes felt like my ligaments and connective tissue were disintegrating. Sounds weird but maybe relevant.

 

[Hip]

When I caught a chronic sore throat virus some years ago, after about 6 months with this virus, I started to noticed that my legs joints and the pelvis (the hip girdle) got a little "slack", as if the ligaments in the pelvis were getting weaker or looser.

In addition, the skin all over my body started showing fine, parchment-like wrinkles - as if the elastin in my skin was being eaten away.

This viral infection never fully cleared up, and in fact spread to many more areas of my body, and now I have developed CFS because of it.

I have speculated that these two phenomena, fine skin wrinkles and lax ligaments, are connected - and that they are both caused by high levels of elastase. Elastase is an enzyme that dissolves away elastin. Elastin is found in the skin, and as well as in the ligaments. Elastin provides strength and tautness in the ligaments and the skin. So presumably the ligaments will become lax if some of the elastin is eaten away by the enzyme elastase.

In fact, people with CFS are known to have higher levels of the enzyme elastase circulating in their bodies, so this explanation makes sense.

 

[Athene]

Hypermobility is strongly linked with fructose malabsorption and much discussed on fructmal forums.
Fructmal is a problem originating in/from a diseased liver. So could the liver have some role in maintaining joints?

BTW Hip,
Kenny De Meirleir talks about elsatin and he reckons he can reduce elastase by killing off certain gut bacteria. I'm not sure of the connection...

 

[V99]

I am hypermobile too. It's caused the vertebrae in my back to shift out of position, which gives a variety of symptoms, from sciatica to headaches. I see a very good osteopath, with treatment lasting about six months, then they shift again. Strengthening the back would help, but I would need to be as active as I once was for this to make a real difference. At the moment my wrist is playing up, is this related?

 

[helsbells]

Thanks Athene - i have never heard that before, I am diagnosed with EDS - hypermobile joints but they didn't actually start hurting until I became ill with the other stuff, - i always have that slightly "liverish tinge" to me and given my detox probs it wouldn't surprise me - off to look it up :Retro wink:

 

[alex3619]

Hi Hip,

I was about to say the same thing about elastase. Without elastin we are also vulnerable to ligament damage.

Bye
Alex

I have speculated that these two phenomena, fine skin wrinkles and lax ligaments, are connected - and that they are both caused by high levels of elastase. Elastase is an enzyme that dissolves away elastin. Elastin is found in the skin, and as well as in the ligaments. Elastin provides strength and tautness in the ligaments and the skin. So presumably the ligaments will become lax if some of the elastin is eaten away by the enzyme elastase.

In fact, people with CFS are known to have higher levels of the enzyme elastase circulating in their bodies, so this explanation makes sense.

 

[Wonko]

I have the foot thing - diagnosed as plantar fasciitis apart frrom the fact that walking/stretching makes it worse - not better as it's supposed to - joint damage (mainly wrist, elbow,shoulder and ankle) used to be commonplace events for me - so common I learnt to work round them

they arent so common now - mainly due to the fact I work on maintainign joint mobility/health quite a bit

feet thing is every morning - unless I am very careful for the first few hours then they become unusable even with a stick etc - eg cant even hop round holding onto counters etc - needless to say I take a fair amount of care not to aggrivate it these days

 

[ukxmrv]

I have ME and also been diagnosed with hypermobile joints but have not noticed any connection with hormonal issues (and I have had hormonal treatment).

My symptoms were much worse after a serious accident instead. Dislocated joints and this has continued since then. Also preimenopausal but no deteriorations since then.

Wish I could understand this better.

(just trying to answer the original posters question and failing).

XMRV+

 

[Hip]

BTW Hip,
Kenny De Meirleir talks about elastin and he reckons he can reduce elastase by killing off certain gut bacteria. I'm not sure of the connection...

As I understand it, part of our immune system, the neutrophil cells (a type of white blood cell), make elastase for the purpose of fighting and destroying bacteria. So perhaps by reducing your bacterial load, you will reduce the quantity of elastase that your neutrophils make. However, elastase can come from other sources: such as from fibroblast cells in your skin, and also, some bacteria themselves make elastase (to help them cut through connective tissue, in order to penetrate through the body).