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Mastering Diabetes online summit on now.

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,398
Location
Austria
I'm not sure what trial you're looking at. You appear to quote the Jakobsen et al study, but that was comparing high GI to low GI carbs, not low carb to low fat.

Therefore, only being about Glycemic index variations, it doesn't adds anything not already known about low-carb or low-fat. Mixing the usual amounts of carbs, as in this study with fats, is dangerous.

Are you aware that you implied in your earlier post that the Brouns paper is an "ideological tainted" expert study?

My honest answer after reading it with what is certainly known about low-carb and high-carb through other studies: This study is ideologically tainted!.

(3) sustained adherence to a ketogenic LCHF diet appears to be difficult. A non-ketogenic diet supplying 100–150 g carbohydrate/day, under good control, may be more practical.

Maybe practical, but what if not under control this way? As it was in my case. Then it's ensuring a revenue stream from a increasingly diabetic population through medication with no therapeutic effects whatsoever. Supporting this cruel business model.

(4) There is lack of data supporting long-term efficacy, safety and health benefits of LCHF diets. Any recommendation should be judged in this light.

Duh. Diabetes isn't crippling? And has in fact only increased with recommended high-carbohydrates diets.

(5) Lifestyle intervention in people at high risk of developing type 2 diabetes, while maintaining a relative carbohydrate-rich diet, results in long-term prevention of progression to type 2 diabetes and is generally seen as safe.

A carbohydrate-rich low-fat diet after 30 years resulted in progression to T2D in me. Reversing that macro-nutrient ratio reversed it.

They just continue to give dietary recommendation they gave for 50 years now. It's time to wake up to the diabetic epidemic.
 
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Eastman

Senior Member
Messages
526
Therefore, only being about Glycemic index variations, it doesn't adds anything not already known about low-carb or low-fat. Mixing the usual amounts of carbs, as in this study with fats, is dangerous.

No, you're missing the point. Read back my previous post that brought up this study.

My honest answer after reading it with what is certainly known about low-carb and high-carb through other studies: This study is ideologically tainted!.

This is what I meant by "unwarranted attack".

Maybe practical, but what if not under control this way?

Then just stick to the ketogenic diet. The paper was just giving an alternative.

From a system perspective, practicality of treatments is actually important. If you come up with a treatment that is perfect based solely on medical theory but is so impractical no one can stick to it, you would save no one.

Duh. Diabetes isn't crippling?

The paper and mainstream medicine has alternatives. In any case, evaluating the long-term safety of treatments isn't unreasonable.

... And has in fact only increased with recommended high-carbohydrates diets.

A statement which is not proven, at least not the healthy low-fat diets recommended, as suggested by the other study we discussed.

A carbohydrate-rich low-fat diet after 30 years resulted in progression to T2D in me. Reversing that macro-nutrient ratio reversed it.

Good for you. I'm sure you know, though, that many others have been forced off low-carb diets because of adverse effects. I think we do need more studies on its efficacy and safety.

They just continue to give dietary recommendation they gave for 50 years now. It's time to wake up to the diabetic epidemic.

I agree that they should modify their recommendation, although not necessarily to low-carb high-fat. I personally doubt that some specific macronutrient composition is the key to good health.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
It is not easy to get online with this ever increasingly popular way of thinking. In the past we were told to eat carbohydrates (any) but take medications to keep BG levels down. Well we know now where that leads - insulin injections which are a massive nail in the coffin.

Then the high fat community were saying, eat fat and cut carbos right down or right out.This did show results, and peoples BG levels reduced, they lost weight and felt better, so they thought that his was the answer. But as @Eastman says, there are no long term studies on the safety of eating a high fat low carb diet, and many people in the support groups I was in when I was eating this way were reporting problems. Maybe not the already healthy ones, but the sick ones were definitely.

I had devloped cravings for sugar and then decided to add complex carbs like brown rice and whole oat groats into my diet. Things just went downhill as it did not stop my cravings and my IR was getting worse and I was gaining weight. I was dismayed as I loved my meat which was top quality grass fed and finished. As @pamojja says, high fat plus high carbos is bad news.

I listened to the iThrive docuseries and found out that my brain was a major problem as addictions change the chemistry. Once you break those all the cravings stop and your body learns how to recognise the best foods which according to many many studies, is plant food.

Since the time I started, over 3 weeks ago, there have been significant changes. I can now eat the carbs I could not eat before. This is due to quitting oils and animal fats. You don't have to give meat and fish up entirely as the diet is plant based and not necessarily vegan. I am going to try some meat tomorrow and see what it does to my fasting BG.

When you are stuck in addictions, and I was astounded on this diet to find that I am addicted to salt, after giving it iup (loads of salt in vegetables) you just do what any addict does and get defensive and be in denial. Now I no longer crave for anything which is about for the first time in my life. I am satisifed with small amounts of food though I am eating large amounts of vegetables and 3-4 pieces of fruit a day. My BG was 5.9 this morning the lowest reading since the diet started.

Those in the iThrive FB group are having the same results and the ones on medications are coming off with their doctors supervision and their BG levels are down, many back to normal after a month. I can't believe I missed this all those years and hope i can reverse the damage that high fat has done to me. My sense of smell has returned and I was worried about this as it is the first sign of dementia.

Some of the errors made when seeking the best diet are, concentrataing on one organ or body system that is causing major problems without seeking healing for the whole body. Also in concentrating on macronutrients and not giving micronutrienets which are vital and found in plant food alone, enough attention.
 
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