MAOIs - Phenelzine

[Rvanson]

Not a fan? DId it improve things for you overall?

Yes, Nardil is likely the best and is also cheaper than Parnate. The foods list that you cannot eat, is not as long as some suggest as over the years, foods that were ripe, don't cause issue if eaten before they have been on the shelves for long. Too, the newer anti-depressants aften cuase way too many side effects, and withdrawn can cuase lots of issues, the NSRI class in particular.

 

[Rvanson]

@leokitten - does "irreversible MAOIs" mean what it sounds like - that they cause irreversible effects? That is extremely scary if so!

No, it means that if you take Nardil or Parnate, the two irreversible MAO inhibitors, it will take about six weeks until, they wear off and you can go back to eating or drinking whatever you wish to do. Sorry about the long overdue reply. The effects are not at all permanent, just very long-lasting. I do strongly suggest wearing a Med-Alert bracelet if you decide to try them so that the medics know that you are using them, if you cannot tell them.

 

[Rvanson]

I didn't want to post this, but I must: In late April of 2020, not long after the Covid-19 lockdowns and such, I became very lonely, as my AA groups, as well as my EA and ME/CFS groups all shut down. I wished to speak to a therapist, but since the PSYCHO-logical industry makes TONS of $$$ off of depressives like me, I was more or less tricked by an ER nurse into going to their ER, where she had me "cuffed and stuffed" in less than a minute, for a trip to their mental hospital 24 miles away. I was not suicidal, nor homicidal, but money talks in the US of A.

I was wearing a Medi-Alert bracelet indicating that I was using an MAO inhibitor, for my depressive state. The nurse even LIED on the form that I took too much of the medicine, trying to commit suicide. If I was wishing to speak with a therapist, would I honestly be suicidal? Not hardly. But remember, this industry makes money from all the needless hospitalizations.$7500 USD per day in my case times 5=$37,500. Yeap, and I could easily have died.

When I was transported by an ER van without the lights to the Psychiatric "hospital" 25 miles away. The first thing I told them was that I was on a legally prescribed MAO inhibitor medication. That went right past them. I had my shoes removed for socks that barely fit. I had all of my items taken from me. Watch, belt, smartphone, leatherman multi-tool,and police-style small flashlight, wallet, keys and of course, my Medi-Alert bracelet, which was _not_ looked at, and all placed in a plastic bag.

I was then escorted to a room with another man. Likeable enough, but a lifelong smoker, who hacked up all the time and snored louder than a vessels fog-horn. Had to wear Covid masks the entire time, which was not pleasant. I don't wear one now over a year later unless I enter a store.And here I am lock up in close proximity to people who might have had the COVID-19 virus. Oh, joy-joy. Thankfully, I am negative for Covid-19, but no injections. I'll be damned if I ever become bedbound again, like I was when ME/CFS took me down 26 years ago.

After two days, I requested another room to due to this man's VERY loud snoring. I suffer from insomnia anyhow, but this was way out of hand. By the second day, after being given medications in a small white cup, I started to feel ill. I lost all appetite by the end of day two and slept on the floor as I am used to sleeping in a cold bed, so I slept on the floor as it was cooler.

No nurse asked me if I was feeling ill during this entire stay, even during the day when I did not go to the three meals a day they served. My gut was killing me, and with almost no sleep, it didn't get any better, but at least I didn't have to hear that man snoring away. My roommate was quiet, and I had no issues with him at all, thankfully.

I had no idea what was In the white paper cup they kept giving me everyday., but as my insomnia became worse, I asked the woman at the nurse's station for something to help me sleep. Thankfully she did, so a couple of nights
Turns out, after I collected all my papers after everything was over and done with, it was Ativan, the only benzodiazepine medication that I have an issue with. Yes, normally I take Xanax prescribed for sleep, but Ativan effects my memory, and Xanax does not. But in the low dose they gave me, it barely helped me to get some sleep, and recall everything in that denizen of moneymakers to a tee, even after my story ends, thankfully.

I have one brother, who is married to a woman who hates me, for no logical reason. I spent a quarter of a century, being "nice" to her, so that my two nieces would never be harmed by me as my brother and I were harmed by our alcoholic mother, who turned into a monster when she became drunk on her Vin Rose', the only thing she drank.

I've never married, nor do I have any children, as I was afraid that I might emotionally/mentally harm them, as was done to myself and my brother. When that b**ch insulted me with my young nieces nearby, I was able to keep me cool and stay logical, and unemotional, as I had learned to do, watching the original "Star Trek" series with Spock as a mentor of sorts. I owe Leonard Nimoy's character to that, even though I am human and have emotions.

Anyhow, after five long days, not a 72-hour hold, as it should have been, since I never acted irrationally, I was released to my brother. He was not allowed inside due to the Covid lockdown's, but when we left I asked him to
take me home. Instead, he took me to his home, 73 miles away from where I live, which was a big mistake. By then the Zoloft they gave me in the hospital began to put me into a blackout state, of which I do not remember, other than becoming mad about something (likely about being tricked by a nurse and sent to a mental hospital).

Apparently it got so bad that my brother took me to a regular hospital where I had a grand-mal seizure, I don't recall it, as I was still out of it. I woke up to my surroundings a day or two later, and they told me where I was and what
happened with regard to the seizure, but they had me watched 24/7 by the nurses, so they must have known about the other hospital. One thing led to another, but since that time, and to shorten my story, my sister-in-law got her wish and we (brother and her) are not speaking to one another. My hatred for the psychological professions knows no bounds now. I tried to sue them for malpractice, but that has not gone anywhere. Attorney's simply won't take the case at all, and I have contacted many in all of these months. Thankfully, I seem to be back to my same old self with no discernible damage to my intellect, but with new knowledge about the entire US medical system.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Rvanson ....

I've heard some nightmare stories, and lived thru a couple of my own, but absolutely NOTHING that compares to what you went thru. It makes that old Olivia De Havilland movie The Snake Pit look like a Riviera cruise. The levels of betrayal and crass greed and ineptitude are ..... wow .... just deeply unsettling, upsetting, and horrifying, and I didnt have to live thru them.

I'm close to speechless, which anyone who knows me or has read my posts knows is not a natural condition for me, grasping futilely for anything that might help.

I wont go into a repetition of my opinion of the psychiatric profession, which I've expressed in several threads here. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist himself, sums it up nicely: "The most dangerous thing any adult can do is walk into a psychiatrist's office".

The only positive I can dredge out of this macabre horror is that somehow, incredibly, you're still sane, and you're back in your own safe-place. It's too bad about your brother, but he's sleeping with the enemy and will need some serious de-programming should he ever wake up.

And I want to salute the courage it took for you to share this abomination. It couldnt have been easy.

Know that I' sending you whatever positivity and support will survive a trip thru The Cyber, and that I think you're remarkable for not having strangled a nurse. Or you venomous sister-in-law. Or both. .....

 

[Pyrrhus]

I didn't want to post this, but I must: In late April of 2020, not long after the Covid-19 lockdowns and such, I became very lonely, as my AA groups, as well as my EA and ME/CFS groups all shut down. I wished to speak to a therapist, but since the PSYCHO-logical industry makes TONS of $$$ off of depressives like me, I was more or less tricked by an ER nurse into going to their ER, where she had me "cuffed and stuffed" in less than a minute, for a trip to their mental hospital 24 miles away. I was not suicidal, nor homicidal, but money talks in the US of A.

I was wearing a Medi-Alert bracelet indicating that I was using an MAO inhibitor, for my depressive state. The nurse even LIED on the form that I took too much of the medicine, trying to commit suicide. If I was wishing to speak with a therapist, would I honestly be suicidal? Not hardly. But remember, this industry makes money from all the needless hospitalizations.$7500 USD per day in my case times 5=$37,500. Yeap, and I could easily have died.

When I was transported by an ER van without the lights to the Psychiatric "hospital" 25 miles away. The first thing I told them was that I was on a legally prescribed MAO inhibitor medication. That went right past them. I had my shoes removed for socks that barely fit. I had all of my items taken from me. Watch, belt, smartphone, leatherman multi-tool,and police-style small flashlight, wallet, keys and of course, my Medi-Alert bracelet, which was _not_ looked at, and all placed in a plastic bag.

I was then escorted to a room with another man. Likeable enough, but a lifelong smoker, who hacked up all the time and snored louder than a vessels fog-horn. Had to wear Covid masks the entire time, which was not pleasant. I don't wear one now over a year later unless I enter a store.And here I am lock up in close proximity to people who might have had the COVID-19 virus. Oh, joy-joy. Thankfully, I am negative for Covid-19, but no injections. I'll be damned if I ever become bedbound again, like I was when ME/CFS took me down 26 years ago.

After two days, I requested another room to due to this man's VERY loud snoring. I suffer from insomnia anyhow, but this was way out of hand. By the second day, after being given medications in a small white cup, I started to feel ill. I lost all appetite by the end of day two and slept on the floor as I am used to sleeping in a cold bed, so I slept on the floor as it was cooler.

No nurse asked me if I was feeling ill during this entire stay, even during the day when I did not go to the three meals a day they served. My gut was killing me, and with almost no sleep, it didn't get any better, but at least I didn't have to hear that man snoring away. My roommate was quiet, and I had no issues with him at all, thankfully.

I had no idea what was In the white paper cup they kept giving me everyday., but as my insomnia became worse, I asked the woman at the nurse's station for something to help me sleep. Thankfully she did, so a couple of nights
Turns out, after I collected all my papers after everything was over and done with, it was Ativan, the only benzodiazepine medication that I have an issue with. Yes, normally I take Xanax prescribed for sleep, but Ativan effects my memory, and Xanax does not. But in the low dose they gave me, it barely helped me to get some sleep, and recall everything in that denizen of moneymakers to a tee, even after my story ends, thankfully.

I have one brother, who is married to a woman who hates me, for no logical reason. I spent a quarter of a century, being "nice" to her, so that my two nieces would never be harmed by me as my brother and I were harmed by our alcoholic mother, who turned into a monster when she became drunk on her Vin Rose', the only thing she drank.

I've never married, nor do I have any children, as I was afraid that I might emotionally/mentally harm them, as was done to myself and my brother. When that b**ch insulted me with my young nieces nearby, I was able to keep me cool and stay logical, and unemotional, as I had learned to do, watching the original "Star Trek" series with Spock as a mentor of sorts. I owe Leonard Nimoy's character to that, even though I am human and have emotions.

Anyhow, after five long days, not a 72-hour hold, as it should have been, since I never acted irrationally, I was released to my brother. He was not allowed inside due to the Covid lockdown's, but when we left I asked him to
take me home. Instead, he took me to his home, 73 miles away from where I live, which was a big mistake. By then the Zoloft they gave me in the hospital began to put me into a blackout state, of which I do not remember, other than becoming mad about something (likely about being tricked by a nurse and sent to a mental hospital).

Apparently it got so bad that my brother took me to a regular hospital where I had a grand-mal seizure, I don't recall it, as I was still out of it. I woke up to my surroundings a day or two later, and they told me where I was and what
happened with regard to the seizure, but they had me watched 24/7 by the nurses, so they must have known about the other hospital. One thing led to another, but since that time, and to shorten my story, my sister-in-law got her wish and we (brother and her) are not speaking to one another. My hatred for the psychological professions knows no bounds now. I tried to sue them for malpractice, but that has not gone anywhere. Attorney's simply won't take the case at all, and I have contacted many in all of these months. Thankfully, I seem to be back to my same old self with no discernible damage to my intellect, but with new knowledge about the entire US medical system.

This sounds like a perfect story for a Medical Errors Interview.
@ScottTriGuy

 

[Rvanson]

@Rvanson ....

I've heard some nightmare stories, and lived thru a couple of my own, but absolutely NOTHING that compares to what you went thru. It makes that old Olivia De Havilland movie The Snake Pit look like a Riviera cruise. The levels of betrayal and crass greed and ineptitude are ..... wow .... just deeply unsettling, upsetting, and horrifying, and I didnt have to live thru them.

I'm close to speechless, which anyone who knows me or has read my posts knows is not a natural condition for me, grasping futilely for anything that might help.

I wont go into a repetition of my opinion of the psychiatric profession, which I've expressed in several threads here. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist himself, sums it up nicely: "The most dangerous thing any adult can do is walk into a psychiatrist's office".

The only positive I can dredge out of this macabre horror is that somehow, incredibly, you're still sane, and you're back in your own safe-place. It's too bad about your brother, but he's sleeping with the enemy and will need some serious de-programming should he ever wake up.

And I want to salute the courage it took for you to share this abomination. It couldnt have been easy.

Know that I' sending you whatever positivity and support will survive a trip thru The Cyber, and that I think you're remarkable for not having strangled a nurse. Or you venomous sister-in-law. Or both. .....

Thank you for your kind words, and you're understanding, YippeeKi YOW !! It means a lot to me. That said, I am what some call a "survivor". I've lived for 26 years with ME/CFS, and after close to ten months after surviving my first bout with the onset, I was lucky enough to go back to work, but in a diminished mode, crashing on weekends.

All my former hobbies were over with after that. I lost my fiancé, but I hold absolutely nothing against her at all for leaving me, as I was no longer the same man that I was. I pray that she is doing well in life, in fact, as. I did love her very much.

Too, I am lucky enough to have an older psychiatrist that has no issues prescribing me Xanax and the MAO inhibitors, Parnate, and even Nardil, which many younger psychiatrists would never do these days. He is an independent doctor of psychiatry and is not affiliated with the huge medical group I was with, at the time.

BTW, he had nothing to do with my incarceration in a mental hospital. That was done by the greedy mega-corporation "nurse" who, instead of informing me that they had no mental health professionals at the facility,
where my PCP medical doctor, whom also lied in his reports, to cover up to his corporate masters mistakes,
resided. When I did receive all the medical reports from the mega-medical group, it was full of outright lies.

So now I have learned that we cannot trust the medical profession, nor be able to sue them for their "mistakes"
Unless we almost died to make a case against them in a court of law, as we have no legal defence against them.

I have the proof that they dismissed my legal use of a MAO inhibitor and proof that they gave me the SSRI medication, Zoloft, which is incompatible with a MAO inhibitor, but apparently that is inconsequential to my own solid case of malpractice against them. I could have died of a stroke or worse, but it still was impossible to find legal counsel to bring this medical corporation into a court of law, and plead my case to a jury.of my peers.

Too, in this day and age, it would have been easy for a nurse, or even a doctor, to look up the interactions of using
and SSRI medication with a patient who was currently on a MAO inhibitor. I suppose that was too much trouble.

Again, I thank you for your sympathies and your understanding, YippeeKi YOW !! It has made me feel much better.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

You've had a really, really, rough go, @Rvanson ...

Too, I am lucky enough to have an older psychiatrist that has no issues prescribing me Xanax and the MAO inhibitors, Parnate, and even Nardil, which many younger psychiatrists would never do these days. He is an independent doctor of psychiatry and is not affiliated with the huge medical group I was with, at the time.

Independent practitioners in any medical discipline are very, very hard to find these days, partly because, starting sometime in the late 90's I think, hospitals started buying up all the practices of doctors with privileges at their hospital, and now have complete control over your treatment.

It also eliminates the possibility of a rogue Dr testifying against a hospital in a medical malpractice case, since the hospital literally owns him now, and can end him as well.

The benefits to the Dr are that they can keep their association with the hospital, which would have been withdrawn had they not agreed (and a Dr without privileges at local hospital has no practice ..... it just can't be done), and the hospital greatly reduces the Dr's costs of running a practice.

It's disgusting, and the worst part of it is that most people have no idea about this devil's bargain between hospitals and what they think is their 'private' practitioner.

BTW, he had nothing to do with my incarceration in a mental hospital.

No, I got that. You explained in very articulately in your post. I knew right away what had happened.

So now I have learned that we cannot trust the medical profession, nor be able to sue them for their "mistakes"

Boy, howdy. It's really frightening. I'm grateful I didnt know what I know now when I first confronted cncer treatment. Treatment, I'll add, that 5 different Drs withheld and denied me on the basis that "it was all in my head", I was ust 'stressed out', I was working too hard. You know the drill. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd be dead, because the courage to confront that grinding behemoth would have been beyond me in my weakened condition.

I could have died of a stroke or worse, but it still was impossible to find legal counsel to bring this medical corporation into a court of law, and plead my case to a jury.of my peers.

Yeah, it's really dismal.

First, they limit the time frame within which you can bring a malpractice suit to 12 months from the moment you became aware of the issue, which is ludicrous just in practical terms. Imagine discovering a malpractice issue in the middle of chemo or diabetes or heart treatment. Could you really find an atty, supply him with all the required docs, proofs and paper work, be available for conferences and discovery and depositions, while undergoing those treatments?

Then Drs wi'll use any psych drugs you're taking against you in court, in a nation that still holds 'mental illness' in low esteem, and drug taking even lower, whether it's prescribed by a licensed physician or not.

It's called "pre-impeaching the witness", and this might be the reason you're having such a hard time finding an atty. Well, that and the fact that they have illnesses and families, too, and once they become known for prosecuting malpractice suits, their access to hospitals and medical treatment would be, shall we say, limited. Also, a fair number of attys, like so many Drs, are averse to taking on anything difficult, or anything that would make them have to, you know, actually work. So you really do need an open and shut case, one so flucking painfully obvious that sharp 11 year old could try it successfully.

It's shitty, but it is, as they say, what it is.

You're doing incredibly well in very unfair, difficult, frustrating, angrifying circumstances ....

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I have one brother, who is married to a woman who hates me, for no logical reason.

My husband has one of those- however the brother Also hates us, too!

*Something about borrowing a cashmere sweater in 1966.

Thankfully, I seem to be back to my same old self with no discernible damage to my intellect, but with new knowledge about the entire US medical system.

I suggest you best work this up into a short screenplay-" My 72 Hour Hold" (that lasted 124 ? hours ?)...that book One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest - that made alot of money!

but it still was impossible to find legal counsel to bring this medical corporation into a court of law, and plead my case to a jury.of my peers.

Can i please be on your jury, oh please! Peers- only!

I seem to recall having to sign: agree to Mediation, there is no suing for malpractise.

 

[Judee]

PSYCHO-logical industry

I love the way you used this term.

I have long contended that the most unbalanced among us gravitate to that profession. I think it appeals to the narcissist in them. Unfortunately, the rest of society bows down too easily to their "expertise."

Sorry you went through all that.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I think it appeals to the narcissist in them.

I agree. Also the autocratic megalomaniac in them ... I suspect Mommy Issues ...