Manganese Toxicity Concerns

[Don Quixote]

Hello everyone,

I am doing some mineral balancing to try to bring my copper into balance, using HTMA analysis through Trace Elements. They keep giving me this Zinc-Manganese supplement that has 15mg manganese in it and they tell me to take it three times per day, so 45mg manganese total not including from food sources. The RDA is around 2mg I believe, and everything I read suggests that taking more than this can result in manganese toxicity induced Parkinsons disease. I'm really worried about this and not sure if I should continue. Does anyone have insights?

Thanks!

 

[drmullin30]

The safe upper limit for manganese is 11 mg per day. If it is a full 15 mg per tablet, that's the highest dose manganese supplement I've ever seen! I wouldn't take that much but I've never been able to tolerate much manganese. Manganese is known to be hard on the liver.

Here's the acu-cell link for manganese https://acu-cell.com/femn.html

Acu-cell states that therapeutic doses can be up to 200 mg but I think that's for acute copper toxicity/poisoning.

If you do take that much, watch the antagonism against the following: Potassium, magnesium, calcium, iodine, nickel, boron, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B15, Vitamin C, iron*, sugar*.

Here's the symptoms of toxicity from acu-cell:
High Manganese: Migraine-headaches, PMS, frequent menstrual cycles, endometriosis, dizziness, depression, mental illness, learning disabilities, hypothyroid, higher risk for several cancers, fibroid tumors, insomnia, osteoporosis, edema, liver disease, chronic nausea, colitis, muscle tremors, diabetes, hypothyroid, higher risk for tendon / ligament tears.

 

[Don Quixote]

The safe upper limit for manganese is 11 mg per day. If it is a full 15 mg per tablet, that's the highest dose manganese supplement I've ever seen! I wouldn't take that much but I've never been able to tolerate much manganese. Manganese is known to be hard on the liver.

Here's the acu-cell link for manganese https://acu-cell.com/femn.html

Acu-cell states that therapeutic doses can be up to 200 mg but I think that's for acute copper toxicity/poisoning.

If you do take that much, watch the antagonism against the following: Potassium, magnesium, calcium, iodine, nickel, boron, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B15, Vitamin C, iron*, sugar*.

Here's the symptoms of toxicity from acu-cell:
High Manganese: Migraine-headaches, PMS, frequent menstrual cycles, endometriosis, dizziness, depression, mental illness, learning disabilities, hypothyroid, higher risk for several cancers, fibroid tumors, insomnia, osteoporosis, edema, liver disease, chronic nausea, colitis, muscle tremors, diabetes, hypothyroid, higher risk for tendon / ligament tears.

Wow, thank you for the info and that helpful source. I had never seen this site before.

It makes sense why I was given the manganese because of my copper toxicity, but I am reluctant to keep supplementing, as it seems manganese has worsened some of my OCD symptoms. I am afraid that Manganese toxicity is very difficult to reverse. I noted in the acu-cell that magnesium, B1/B6, and milk thistle might help to kick it out of the liver (but likely not the brain, I am guessing).

My doctors are currently investigating whether I have Wilson's disease. Manganese and copper rely on the same ATP-ase enzymes, as well as ceruloplasmin, that are both deranged with Wilson's. So, basically, I may be a rare case where manganese is just kicking out copper and replacing it in tissues without being excreted, unfortunately.

"The amount of Mn in the supplements would not be of concern in the short term and is based upon the status of the person. However, a mineral supplement should not be taken long-term without follow-up evaluations to determine their status in an individual. We suggest that the recommendations be discontinued after a few months if there is no re-evaluation." - Dr. Watts.

I am probably not a normal individual though, given Wilson's possibility.

 

[Hip]

They keep giving me this Zinc-Manganese supplement that has 15mg manganese in it and they tell me to take it three times per day, so 45mg manganese total not including from food sources.

That's a lot of manganese.

I bought some manganese, which came in 40 mg capsules, and I found it had a mild mood-boosting antidepressant effect (this may be because manganese is a cofactor in the creation of dopamine). So I use manganese now on days where depression hits, along with other antidepressant drugs and supplements.

However for me, 40 mg of manganese causes insomnia (even if I take it in the morning), so I reduced my dose to 3 mg daily, which still has some mood boosting effects, but I can sleep with that.

 

[Don Quixote]

That's a lot of manganese.

I bought some manganese, which came in 40 mg capsules, and I found it had a mild mood-boosting antidepressant effect (this may be because manganese is a cofactor in the creation of dopamine). So I use manganese now on days where depression hits, along with other antidepressant drugs and supplements.

However for me, 40 mg of manganese causes insomnia (even if I take it in the morning), so I reduced my dose to 3 mg daily, which still has some mood boosting effects, but I can sleep with that.

Interesting, I know manganese has an estrogenic effect too. 40mg capsules of pure manganese is quite a big dose. My supplement had 25mg zinc and 15mg manganese, and they told me to take 3-4x daily. I guess they're worried about zinc shutting down certain enzymes (not sure which one, I thought its as 3b-HSD, or 3a-HSD), so they add manganese which increases those enzymes. Otherwise zinc will probably act a lot like a progesterone because zinc increases progesterone. Manganese will counter this by acting more like an estrogen.

 

[percyval577]

Here are the search results for threads (including my own ones which gather some of the lit, work in progress though).

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/search/435033/?q=manganese&c[title_only]=1&o=date

Mn seems to have been at two time points the trigger for my ME/CFS, through borrelia and EBV blockage of VitD receptor probably with too less Mn/Zn export out of the cell (by ZnT10).

Mn is abandon in the natural environment but the use is restricted to very few - though important - tasks, or can be replaced by Mg, resp.

 

[drmullin30]

So an update on this for me. I've recently had to start supplementing manganese due to oxalate dumping. I've been low oxalate for ten months and a few weeks ago I started getting dizzy and weak and I thought I was anemic and needed iron but then I found out that oxalates can strip manganese out of the body along with all the other minerals so I ended up deficient.

Low manganese will cause iron deficient anemia because it's necessary for iron absorption.

I'm now taking 30 mg a day of manganese! and about 15 mg per day of iron and the symptoms are under control. I still get oxalate dumping symptoms but the weakness and dizziness is gone. I will be cutting both back or out once I'm finished the oxalate dumping.