Low T, high IGF 1 and DHEA

Justin30

Senior Member
Messages
1,065
Likes
1,291
Hi,

Im looking to get some feedback from the men out there.

I am wondering about TRT and the use of clomid or HCG.

Can any of you out there share your experiences positive or negative with regard to the use of these therapies?

This would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Justin
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,372
Likes
5,072
Location
Concord, NH
I am on Clomid, 3 times a week, at 25mg. I take 50mg of DHEA a day, my DHEA dosage has gone from 25 mg to 75 or higher? I would have to see if I have paperwork around about IGF1, not even sure I get tested for that, but probably do, or will now!

Or at least talk to my Dr about why I don't get tested for IGF1, if that is the case.

GG
 

Justin30

Senior Member
Messages
1,065
Likes
1,291
I am on Clomid, 3 times a week, at 25mg. I take 50mg of DHEA a day, my DHEA dosage has gone from 25 mg to 75 or higher? I would have to see if I have paperwork around about IGF1, not even sure I get tested for that, but probably do, or will now!

Or at least talk to my Dr about why I don't get tested for IGF1, if that is the case.

GG
Thanks for your response my DHEA levels are above normal same with IGF 1 i font want to supplement if they are so high. My low T though I think is having an a negative impact. I am also going to look into more cortisol testing, 24 hour.
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,372
Likes
5,072
Location
Concord, NH
My lab results for Feb 2016.

My DHEA (sulfate level) was 429 on a scale of 106-464 mcg/dl for men. Quest Labs

GG

Is IGF1 also named something else?

Edit: Noticing I have a low Pregnenolone level of <5 with a range of 13-208 ng/dl.
 
Last edited:
Messages
64
Likes
40
I am on Clomid, 3 times a week, at 25mg. I take 50mg of DHEA a day, my DHEA dosage has gone from 25 mg to 75 or higher? I would have to see if I have paperwork around about IGF1, not even sure I get tested for that, but probably do, or will now!

Or at least talk to my Dr about why I don't get tested for IGF1, if that is the case.

GG
I understand that most of you other ME/CFSsufferers don't have liver issues but just in case someone has since I remember seeing DHEA on lists of hepatotoxic substances I had a quick look.There is a long list of side effects on the site mayoclinic.org.I am only going to quote the part that is relevant to the liver "DHEA may interfere with the way the body processes certain agents using the liver's cytochrome P450enzyme system.As a result,the levels of these agents may be increased in the blood and may cause increased effects or potentially serious adverse reactions".Those who read this and have a history of adverse reactions or have had genetic testing done and found out that they are slow metabolizers should be careful!
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,372
Likes
5,072
Location
Concord, NH
I understand that most of you other ME/CFSsufferers don't have liver issues but just in case someone has since I remember seeing DHEA on lists of hepatotoxic substances I had a quick look.There is a long list of side effects on the site mayoclinic.org.I am only going to quote the part that is relevant to the liver "DHEA may interfere with the way the body processes certain agents using the liver's cytochrome P450 enzyme system.As a result,the levels of these agents may be increased in the blood and may cause increased effects or potentially serious adverse reactions".Those who read this and have a history of adverse reactions or have had genetic testing done and found out that they are slow metabolizers should be careful!
Think I have been tested for this, and believe my body is deficient/doesn't have this enzyme. Not sure I am using the proper terminology? But perhaps if your body doesn't produce the enzyme you do Not need to worry, or would it be the opposite?

GG
 
Messages
64
Likes
40
Think I have been tested for this, and believe my body is deficient/doesn't have this enzyme. Not sure I am using the proper terminology? But perhaps if your body doesn't produce the enzyme you do Not need to worry, or would it be the opposite?

GG
There are different risks for slow metabolizers and fast metabolizers.Fast metabolizers can be affected if a chemical becomes more toxic after it is broken down ,they can accumulate a higher concentration of a toxic metabolite.According to the mayo clinic site DHEA is more toxic to slow metabolizers.The reason I did a very quick search was because I think I remember DHEA as a chemical that causes cholestatic liver damage that is arrest of bile flow and hepatocyte damage.I think that is what I suffer from.It is known to be very debilitating and it affects the part of the liver where chemicals are detoxified.You have to weigh carefully risks and benefits and decide if it is worth the risk.My opinion is that you cannot be too careful and there are many medications and chemicals that can damage the liver and damage is not always benign and reversible as is the unsubstantiated claim regarding cholestatic damage.Anyway I wasn't able to confirm my recollection regarding DHEA and cholestasis and you can check out of a group of enzymes that break down chemicals which one it is that you have the slow version of.Maybe you should discuss this with your doctor.
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,372
Likes
5,072
Location
Concord, NH
There are different risks for slow metabolizers and fast metabolizers. Fast metabolizers can be affected if a chemical becomes more toxic after it is broken down ,they can accumulate a higher concentration of a toxic metabolite. According to the mayo clinic site DHEA is more toxic to slow metabolizers.

The reason I did a very quick search was because I think I remember DHEA as a chemical that causes cholestatic liver damage that is arrest of bile flow and hepatocyte damage.I think that is what I suffer from.It is known to be very debilitating and it affects the part of the liver where chemicals are detoxified.

You have to weigh carefully risks and benefits and decide if it is worth the risk.My opinion is that you cannot be too careful and there are many medications and chemicals that can damage the liver and damage is not always benign and reversible as is the unsubstantiated claim regarding cholestatic damage.

Anyway I wasn't able to confirm my recollection regarding DHEA and cholestasis and you can check out of a group of enzymes that break down chemicals which one it is that you have the slow version of.Maybe you should discuss this with your doctor.
Can you break this up to make it easier to read, for me and future readers. Thanks!

Edit, broke this up because you haven't :)
 
Last edited:
Messages
64
Likes
40
Can you break this up to make it easier to read, for me and future readers. Thanks!
Which part would you like me to break up?I have my limitations both with english which is not my native language and with scientific text since I am not a scientist .I read a few thousand pages of scientific text(including textbooks) close to 20 years ago looking for answers for my illness.Some things I understand better some things(chemical reactions)are beyond my grasp.I 'll try to explain better if you tell me what you would like me to explain.
 
Messages
64
Likes
40
It's getting close to bed time in my part of the world but I decided to google DHEA cholestasis one more stuborn attempt to look for confirmation that DHEA is on the list of medications that can cause cholestasis.Maybe my memory is not serving me well since there is one study "Dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate improves cholestasis-associated fatigue in bile duct ligated rats'' Neurogastroenterol Motil 2009 Dec;21(12):1319-25 I only read the abstract. I am a bit sceptical regarding the concept of using an animal model to reproduce an illness but even more of the assessment of less fatigue which seems to have been based on observation and not on objective measurement(If I missed something I am a bit sleepy)There is an article on a site Open science "Early shifts of adrenal steroid synthesis before and after relief of short-term cholestasis"and it starts like this"Chronic inflammatory diseases are characterised by a relative reduction of cortisol and adrenal androgens''.You knew that already,didn't you?Hopefully someone else can continue the search while I will be sleeping.
 
Messages
64
Likes
40
Just a few paragraphs (line breaks) would help :)
@*GG*I'll try to explain a few things.In order for the body to eliminate lipid soluble chemicals it needs to make them water soluble so that the kidneys can eliminate them.That's what the cytochrome P450 enzymes do(they are active mainly in the liver but also present in smaller quantities in other parts of the body including the brain).They break off a part of the chemical to be eliminated and thus expose an area where another group of enzymes(glutathione dependent enzymes)will attach something(a molecule)that will make the chemical water soluble.The process of breaking off part of a chemical can result in free radicals being produced that is highly reactive bits of chemicals that if they react the wrong way or with the wrong thing it can result in a mutation that can become a cancerous cell.
 
Messages
64
Likes
40
@*GG*I'll try to explain a few things.In order for the body to eliminate lipid soluble chemicals it needs to make them water soluble so that the kidneys can eliminate them.That's what the cytochrome P450 enzymes do(they are active mainly in the liver but also present in smaller quantities in other parts of the body including the brain).They break off a part of the chemical to be eliminated and thus expose an area where another group of enzymes(glutathione dependent enzymes)will attach something(a molecule)that will make the chemical water soluble.The process of breaking off part of a chemical can result in free radicals being produced that is highly reactive bits of chemicals that if they react the wrong way or with the wrong thing it can result in a mutation that can become a cancerous cell.
I am sorry I didn't realize you wanted me to write in paragraphs.I'll try to remember that.It'slike a new skill for me.No one has read anything I have written since school!(For the first time in my life I feel the need to use an emoji-maybe sad or embarrassed face- another skill that I have yet to aquire)
 

bread.

Senior Member
Messages
465
Likes
627
Thanks for your response my DHEA levels are above normal same with IGF 1 i font want to supplement if they are so high. My low T though I think is having an a negative impact. I am also going to look into more cortisol testing, 24 hour.
hey have you figured out your high dhea and igf1? I have the same issue.