Low Stomach Acid

[TheMoonIsBlue]

So I suffered from years from GERD (Still do, not as bad though) and after swallowing prilosec, nexium, tagamet, zantac, mylanta.......and still getting WORSE....I finally years ago read about the possibility of having LOW stomach acid. It mostly says it is a problem with aging, but I was a teenager when this started. I tried ACV and low and behold, relief, albeit temporarily.

I now take Betaine HCI with my meal and I digest so much better.

Could low stomach acid have allowed viruses to flourish and thus make us sick? Could low stomach acid, and not sterilizing the contents in our stomach, affect our IMMUNE system?

I still do burp a lot :Retro smile: but my GERD is primarily only at nighttime........doesn't matter if I follow all the recommendations of not eating 3-4 hours before bed, raising your head higer, etc., when I wake up I have a sore raw throat and after a drink of water, a tremendous BELCH comes out (or two of three!)

P.S. I read that nighttime GERD can cause a sort of sleep apnea

 

[cher]

Hi theMoonIsBlue,
I too am suffering with GERD very serverly at the moment and for the past 5 months, feeling at the end the line. Am in the next few weeks having all testing for stomach acidity. I have been taking Nexium 80 mg daily with still no relief. Hoping after these test, Gastroenerlogist can come up with something to help this aweful condition that is making my life miserable. Help me someone!!!!!!

cher

 

[TheMoonIsBlue]

Hi Cher, have you tried 2tsp of apple cider vinegar (the kind with "mother"-not heinze brand- you can find it online cheaply) in about 4 oz of water. Try and see if you get a BURP within 1 minute. It will slightly acidify your stomach.
Theres lots of info online to see if you may have low stomach acid.

 

[cher]

Hi MoonIsBlue,
I will try anything at the moment, will purchase that tonight, any indication on how long it will take to settle down? The acid is so bad at the moment it has burnt my mouth.

cher

 

[serg1942]

Digestion back after 6 years: Cher, MoonIsBlue

Hi Cher and MoonIsBlue,

Low stomach HCL in very common in CFS, due to (according to R. Konynenburg’s theory on CFS pathogenesis, that does make sense) low ATP production by the mitochondrion (the heart of the CFS!), that in turn is needed to produce HCL by the parietal cells of the stomach.

I think my experience can help you. My first symptoms, 7 years ago, were gut issues: Together with completely lack of appetite, I had endless digestions, nausea, bloating, food intolerances, etc. It was a nightmare (a very bad one, actually!) to live (well, to survive…) with these issues, until I read a Rich Konynenburg’s post on low HCL in CFS…It was a miracle to take betaine HCL the first time…I was digesting again, after a couple of years!!!

Ok, my problem was that I developed tolerance to betaine HCL, i.e., I needed more over time, until I reached a point where, indeed, I would have needed about 12 caps per meal…Crazy! Of course I didn’t take more than four per meal, as the betaine in betaine HCL can actually stimulate the short cycle of the methylation cycle (via enzyme BHMT), and therefore worsen the situation (I do think the methylation cycle is the biochemical “key” in CFS, and most of us have this cycle partially blocked).

So, from a year ago to a few weeks ago, the nightmare returned…

Then, I remembered that 6 years ago (at 21 years old) my doctor, very wisely prescribed antidepressants (because It was crystal clear that everything was in my head…), and, although they only made me feel worse, paradoxically all my digestive symptoms disappeared.

So, what did the antidepressants help me with? Of course not with HCL…The only possibility is that they helped me by improving my motility (raising serotonine).

So, I made two changes two weeks ago that actually are allowing me to digest again, and I have to say that it feels incredibly good…it is such a relieve…You can imagine!

One of my changes has been to take liquid HCL on its own (without betaine), from Nutricology:

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrochloric-...r_1_3?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285139552&sr=8-3

I don’t know why, but it seems to be more effective than betaine HCL.

And here is the second change that has actually “made the trick”: I have started taking Psyllium. It is mainly fiber, and it acts as a "sponge" that, instead of absorbing “stuff”, it just “pushes” the food, so it actually improves the motility…

It’s funny that I normally felt less nausea if I took some cookies (organic, no gluten, no anyting ;-) after eating, and my feeling was that they acted as “sponges”…Well, after telling this to a friend, she recommended Psyllium, as she remembered how it inflates when mixed with water, looking like the “sponge” I was talking about (I know, a peculiar deduction, but still a deduction, right? :innocent1

Anyway, the thing is that I’ve been taking it for a few weeks, and I am actually able to eat double the amount I could, and no longer have nausea…So I really thing that a big part of the problem is low motility capacity, and this supplement does improve it. So I hope this can help you as well. (Don’t worry about diarrhea. I didn’t need extra fiber -I had regular daily bowel movements-, and this is not causing me diarrhea, just more bowel movements (sorry for the schatological image!), but this is actually good…

Finally, as far as your question, yes, of course low HCL can affect the immune system, for the reason you have pointed out.

Saluditos and hope my experience is helpful,
Sergio

 

[Carrigon]

My experience with Betaine HCI was mixed. I was on all those antacids, too. Nothing worked. Switched to the Betaine with some probiotics, helped alittle, but not enough. One thing that has helped alot is raw red cabbage. For some reason raw red cabbage eaten mostly plain and in large quantities, like a salad, that helped me alot. I was even able to eat chocolate after I ate the red cabbage and didn't get heartburn. Haven't found anything else to help. And the red cabbage has to be eaten daily or it stops working.

 

[Alexia]

Hi,

I also suffer with low stomach acid. After 16 years of bad digestion I got to a point where I could hardly eat anymore! Luckily I found an excellent therapist that realised what was my problem. Now I'm taking 6 capsules of Betaine per meal !! my digestion is improving a lot. The therapist said it may take a couple of years to get my stomach to produce acid at normal levels.
An important issue is the fact that if the stomach doesn't produce acid enough it gets inflamed and it feels as if the acid makes it worse. The way my therapist advised me was to start with small amounts of Betaine and simultaneous take supplements for the stomach inflammation and then as the inflammation decreased increase the Betaine amount. It works! I use to have awful stomach pains and now I very rarely have it.
My digestion is not yet "normal" but the improvements are amazing.
I would recomend the book "Why Stomach Acid is Good for " by Dr. Jonathan V. Wright

 

[ukxmrv]

I've been taking Betaine HCL for years. Didn't have any stomach issues when I first became ill with ME (acute viral onset) Sadly even taking HCL hasn't done much for the stomach bugs I've picked up in the last 5 years or so.

No effects as well on my general health and main ME symptoms.

Betaine HCL has been wonderful though for the slow stomach motility and other problems I've had and it's the best supplement for any symtom I've ever used. I've found so few things that work well and keep working for many symptoms in the disease.

XMRV+

 

[serg1942]

Hi Alexia,

I have read a few times what you explain, i.e., that HCL improves overtime by supplementing it. However, I don’t think this is the case in many PWCs, because we have certain biochemical blocks and chronic infections that prevent us to produce enough ATP. Indeed, my experience is the opposite. I developed tolerance to betaine HCL, and I think it is because the body directs the low ATP we have to more important “duties”, when it "realizes" that the HCL in the stomach is being already supplying. I think therefore that other issues need to be solved first, in order to improved the ATP recycling and then, the HCL production.

Could you tell me what are you taking to reduce the stomach inflammation? I am very interested, as this must be one of my problems as well, I imagine as a result of low HCL and low motility...

Saluditos,
Sergio

PS. Ukxmrv, I also think betaine HCL (or the liquid HCL I am taking now) has been the most useful supplement I’ve ever tried since I am sick (Well, together with LDN, although this is not a supplement). And now, Psyllium is working amazingly too, as I explained.

 

[aquariusgirl]

sergio

so how much psyllium do you take? and do you put it in caps or mix it with water and glug it down (yuk...i've done this and it has a very high yuk factor.)

BTW< this came up on another list.. and someone mentioned they were intolerant of the psyllium because of the gluten.

I'm not sure what to think about that....perhaps this person was particularly intolerant of gluten.

 

[ukxmrv]

Oooo, Psyllium, awful stomach pain and increased motility problems for me. Ouch even the thought of it makes me want to bend double. Fibre is not good on my stomach so maybe that.

 

[serg1942]

Hi aquariosgirl,

I have just been tought what a "high yuk factor" means!:victory:

Yes, I mix psyllium with juice, as it disguises its bad taste (and consequently the "yak factor"), and drink it just after each meal (But the glue-factor cannot be avoided!).

I take 3 teaspoons with larges meals and 1 with snacks...

RE: Gluten, well, you have scared me to death with the possibility of Psyllium having gluten!!! (I am genetically intolerant to it!), but it seems after a quick search on the internet that it doens't contain it...

Saluditos,
Sergio

 

[serg1942]

Hi ukxmrv, well, I guess it depends on each person...If I take too much I feel cramps...but it definitely improves my motility.

Sergio

 

[antherder]

Can I ask you fellow GERD sufferers how many times a day you reflux? I reflux more than thirty times, during my waking moments, and my morning heartburn suggests I reflux all through the night too. Just curious...

 

[TheMoonIsBlue]

I remember one person saying, she could eat all the spicy food she wanted, but any sugar and her GERD acted up. Exactly the opposite of what a doctor would tell you! Stay away from spicy foods....

My GERD is primarily at night, but before I got the whole high vs. low stomach acid things figured out, it was all the time.

Another thing-GERD is a MAJOR trigger of Asthma for some people......another thing I had to figure out on my own. I couldn't figure out why I kept having this "Strangling" feeling in my throat...and the feeling of needing to burp....it was acid (even trace amounts) irritating my lungs. I have to use my inhaler when this happens.

GERD being found as a trigger for childhood asthma as well. I do wonder if in children, food intolerances or their diets could be a problem for some children.

 

[antherder]

Hi TheMoonIsBlue,

I gave up spicy foods. It didn't help one bit, but I couldn't reintroduce them.

I think food intolerances are a major trigger for childhood asthma. Adult too. Have you looked into whether sulfites might be one of the triggers for your asthma? They make me wheeze.

http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsulphites.htm

http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/index.htm

 

[topghetto]

Hi @serg1942

Sorry for bringing this thread back from its sleep but, I was just wondering if you were still taking the liquid solution of hydrochloric acid to aid your digestion? Thanks.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Nothing wrong with bringing up an old thread. I just want to be sure you understood the he was/is taking betaine hydrochloric acid not regular hydrochloric acid.

 

[topghetto]

Hi @Little Bluestem,

Initially, he does talk about betaine hydrochloric acid but later on in the same post, he then says he developed a tolerance to betaine HCl so, then later on, he started taking a liquid solution of hydrochloric acid, and of course, a diluted solution at that. Here's the link that he posted...

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrochloric-...r_1_3?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285139552&sr=8-3

 

[Little Bluestem]

@topghetto , have you tried betaine hydrocloric acid? If not, I think that would be a safer way to start.